43-287B
- Thread starter Brad
- Start date
Got 30 loaded with the 287B tonight. All cast in one lot. 5 each with 20.5 gr H110 in 445 brass with a CCI 350. This is a full gr below what I was shooting. There are 3 groups of bullets with various cuts on the nose. 5 at .431 and 5 at .429 .
I also loaded 10 ea of the NOE 503 and ACE 245 with 19.5 gr of 2400 and a Fed 150 primer. These are all sized .431.
Will try to get photos of the bullets up later.
I also loaded 10 ea of the NOE 503 and ACE 245 with 19.5 gr of 2400 and a Fed 150 primer. These are all sized .431.
Will try to get photos of the bullets up later.
The NOE 503 and the ACE 245. Hard to see here but the ACE has a small reduced diameter area between the transition between ogive and full body diameter and the crimp groove. You can see a hint of a shiny ring where the nose was sized down but it isn't all the way to the crimp groove. Can anyone else see room for lead to move?
The 503, being a typical Keith type bullet, has plenty of lube groove for lead flow.
Here are the 287B after sizing to .429. Right to left the have a taper cut into the nose, a greatly enlarged forward section of crimp groove, and enlarged crimp groove and a small .41 groove in the nose. The groove isn't as ice as I would have liked but it was the tool I had on hand.
None of these are crimped yet. Very easy to feel a difference in seating the .429 and the .431 bullets.
Anyone care to estimate the velocity difference between the bullets based on size? I expect about 25-50 fps reduction with the smaller bullets due to leaking gas before the bullet seals the forcing cone. I hope I doesn't lead!
I'm also wondering if I am paying too much attention to the nose. I need to see what happens of the grease groove is made deeper and a little wider. With the amount of nose engraving and the gas check I'm not worried about making the base have a little less bearing surface.
I think deeper is more important than wider.
I think deeper is more important than wider.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I don't think any deeper than the lands is really needed.
hopefully you can capture some of these.
I'd also like to see you cut another groove in the bullet somewhere in the drive band area.
that would also prove out some of the ideas we have been kicking around.
just cutting the nose like this will also show something about the lead flow we were talking about earlier.
you have so much up there to move that allowing the groove to take it up will at least show us if we were right about the displacement thing.
hopefully you can capture some of these.
I'd also like to see you cut another groove in the bullet somewhere in the drive band area.
that would also prove out some of the ideas we have been kicking around.
just cutting the nose like this will also show something about the lead flow we were talking about earlier.
you have so much up there to move that allowing the groove to take it up will at least show us if we were right about the displacement thing.
F
freebullet
Guest
Are those taper crimped?
Well that was a complete waste of time.
Targets pretty well showed me that 21 gr of H110 with that bullet is a crappy load all around. No semblance of a group at all. I may repeat with a different load.
I did get some chrony data so that is good.
Nose Size Avg. ES. SD
Taper 432. 1272. 47. 17
Big crimp. 432. 1284. 15. 16
Nose band.432. 1293. 26. 11
Taper. 429. 1269. 35. 13
Big crimp. 429. 1259. 53. 19
Nose band. 429. 1267. 28. 12
ACE. 1325. 62. 23
503. 1356. 76. 27
The ACE shot the best but was low so some shots were off paper. The 503 wasn't bad but had lots of vertical. Those two loads show some promise.
The berm was definitely not in a giving mood. Conditions are such that bullets burrow like no other. I recovered a couple but can't tell which load or configuration they were from.
I was shocked at how poorly the 429 bullets grouped compared to the 431. I didn't even get 5 on paper with any of the loads. That was a neat idea but reality says smaller size just isn't the solution. I am a bit bewildered by how little velocity difference there was due to sizing smaller.
If I had to make a call on which nose configuration was best I would say it was the big crimp groove. Best ballistic uniformity and it grouped, such as it was, the best.
What did I learn? That the load was just not right. Sizing smaller isn't the answer and doesn't make much difference in velocity. The ACE with 2400 deserves some load workup.
I really need to find a good way to mark bullets so I can be sure what I'm looking at.
Targets pretty well showed me that 21 gr of H110 with that bullet is a crappy load all around. No semblance of a group at all. I may repeat with a different load.
I did get some chrony data so that is good.
Nose Size Avg. ES. SD
Taper 432. 1272. 47. 17
Big crimp. 432. 1284. 15. 16
Nose band.432. 1293. 26. 11
Taper. 429. 1269. 35. 13
Big crimp. 429. 1259. 53. 19
Nose band. 429. 1267. 28. 12
ACE. 1325. 62. 23
503. 1356. 76. 27
The ACE shot the best but was low so some shots were off paper. The 503 wasn't bad but had lots of vertical. Those two loads show some promise.
The berm was definitely not in a giving mood. Conditions are such that bullets burrow like no other. I recovered a couple but can't tell which load or configuration they were from.
I was shocked at how poorly the 429 bullets grouped compared to the 431. I didn't even get 5 on paper with any of the loads. That was a neat idea but reality says smaller size just isn't the solution. I am a bit bewildered by how little velocity difference there was due to sizing smaller.
If I had to make a call on which nose configuration was best I would say it was the big crimp groove. Best ballistic uniformity and it grouped, such as it was, the best.
What did I learn? That the load was just not right. Sizing smaller isn't the answer and doesn't make much difference in velocity. The ACE with 2400 deserves some load workup.
I really need to find a good way to mark bullets so I can be sure what I'm looking at.
Didn't think of nail polish. I have considered making a small "anvil" that I set a check on for marking with a punch. What I need to learn is if the pressure of firing will erase that mark.
Looking at freebullet's bucket I need to make one like it. I could then fire loads into the bucket with certain recovery. Might be a pain to empty after each trip but I would then know what was in it.
Looking at freebullet's bucket I need to make one like it. I could then fire loads into the bucket with certain recovery. Might be a pain to empty after each trip but I would then know what was in it.
I would be happy with 2" at 100 for 5 shots. Satisfied with a consistent 3".
Doing it different is hard to say right now. I would make a rounded, tapered ogive. I would add a groove in the nose. A larger, deeper crimp groove. A wider, deeper grease groove. A little longer check shank.
Bad thing is that all those changes would probably lead to a bullet possibly around 300 gr.
I have some ideas on some lathe mods I want to make to a few bullets. If they pan out I would consider a new mould.
Doing it different is hard to say right now. I would make a rounded, tapered ogive. I would add a groove in the nose. A larger, deeper crimp groove. A wider, deeper grease groove. A little longer check shank.
Bad thing is that all those changes would probably lead to a bullet possibly around 300 gr.
I have some ideas on some lathe mods I want to make to a few bullets. If they pan out I would consider a new mould.
Plans for today are to build a "Bruce Bucket" for recovery. Shouldn't be difficult at all.
I did recut my soft jaws so I can grip the nose and recut the grease groove on some bullets. I made the groove .038 wide and .020 deeper. Should give plenty of room for lead to move.
If time allows I may even fen load some up and give the bucket a shot, so to speak.
I did recut my soft jaws so I can grip the nose and recut the grease groove on some bullets. I made the groove .038 wide and .020 deeper. Should give plenty of room for lead to move.
If time allows I may even fen load some up and give the bucket a shot, so to speak.