Alloy & heat treat

freebullet

Well-Known Member
While back I made some 454-350 noes. I was obviously off in my alloying attempt, they turned out 7-8bhn. Had hopes of 9-10bhn air cooled. I went ahead & heat treated them for an hour at 415. A week later they test about 7. This is a bit perplexing. The alloy has some lino/ww. The 356-95 were 9bhn air cooled & heat treated at the same time, they are now about 18bhn.

Clearly missed the mark on alloy, but thought they should have hardened some. Why didnt they harden at all? With some antimony & at least a trace of arsenic, I would have guessed for 10-12bhn, instead it seems I annealed them.

Any thoughts or experience welcomed.
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
Something is amiss. My range scrap gets 16-18 when heat treated like that.
Are you positive on the alloy? 7 BHn is awful soft. A week is long enough for some hardening to take place.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
My stick-on weights with 2% Sn air cooled are 8 BHN, about 6 without the Sn. No Sb in it so I didn't try HT. My clip-on weights with (2% Sb-2% Sn) are 12 BHN air cooled. Heat treated I can get to 30 BHN but never go over 18. The percentage of antimony will determine the time curve for hardening with HT. 2% will get me to 18 BHN in 3 days, anything less such as 1% Sb could take 3+ weeks. Also if the Sn percentage is high, 5%+ it will limit the amount of hardening especially with low Sb. With no Sb (grain refiner) they won't harden at all. So what is this alloy that didn't harden?
 

freebullet

Well-Known Member
It was pure, mixed some 5050 lino/ww ingots in, clearly less than I thought I did. Even with less antimony I'm surprised it made no difference.
 
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Brad

Administrator
Staff member
Very weird. Tells me something wasn’t quite what you thought?
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Might give them a couple more weeks. What temperature are you storing the bullets as they age?
 

freebullet

Well-Known Member
Bout 70 down there.
Yeah, I'm in no hurry on it. We'll test in another week.

Have to pay more attention when grabbing the various ingots.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
We'll see what happens but it sure sounds to me like you mixed the pure with just WW, no lino. If so your about 1% Sb, .5% Sn and if it's more pure than WW even less. At that they may get a bit harder, time will tell.

If the bullet is a good fit in the firearm too soft is better than too hard. They may shoot well depending on how hard you push them and the fit.
 
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Bass Ackward

Active Member
My history has marginal Sb mixes offering unpredictable results, especially the larger the caliber / diameter. If I am unsure of the Sb, & want to do larger bullets, I add more heat. Not that they won’t still harden, but it’ll be on their own schedule if at all. Won’t be able to rule a failure for a month.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
many times they ain't lino-type, or are [well were] poured from old used up lino or mixed with whatever was on hand to make the spacers, instead of being bumped back to specification.
they weren't used for pounding paper they were just spacers, so a premium wasn't placed on their alloy so much.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
yeah, mostly they SHOULD be lino but [shrug] you never know til you melt them down and test them.
even then some would/could be and others??
well? [shrug] ww's? almost pure? mix? depleted monotype maybe even.
 

Ian

Well-Known Member
Lino is either in pig form or the page set form, not in blocks. Moveable type is either mono or stereo, and the spacers are whatchagot. I have a box of moveable type, about .5x1x1" blocks, all test about 8 bhn so caveat emptor on alloy depletion.
 

waco

Springfield, Oregon
I have a five gallon bucket of this with spacers and thin blank strips mixed in.
30516F5B-8D8B-43D3-A315-44E13CF5E8AF.jpeg
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
they make a spacer just that size with square holes running through it, but no printing poking down.
and super thin spacers that look almost like pallet banding but bright silver.
I don't think anyone ever re-melted the thin band types, they usually bend into a closed U shape and then snap [literally] in half when you put pressure back towards the bent part at the bottom of the U.