An Oldie ! ! "

[Chris]

Ben,
I was going to ask if yours was a BP gun.
I'm trying to sell a nice Iver Johnson for a friend on GB ( 5 Shot 38 S&W) It has a rather unique SN which puts it Between the 1st & 2nd models so I feel it is BP only. ( my wife has her eye on it since she is a 38 S&W junkie but I told her I'm not dealing with this one!) Just want to sell it for him But GB sale on IJ are pittyfull!
The gun wasn't shot much & only one owner But the machining on the bore is pretty crude Even so; these period break tops are pretty solid & neat
Jim

Total sidenote with no intent to drift the thread... on a whim I thought I would mention that i knew Mr. Luther Otto III, the president of Iver Johnson. I knew his children well. Small world kind of thing...

Please carry on, I'm interested in Ben's pistol and this discussion.

 

[Pistolero]

Nice looking little pocket shooter, Ben.

Am I seeing a Glock type trigger blocking safety on JWF's Iver Johnson? I know very close to
nothing about these little pistols. Did they actually invent the blade-in-trigger safety a long time
ago?

Ben - the main issue with these little guys is the extremely low velocity. This kind of cartridge
is what was being used in all the old "his life was saved by his pocket Bible" or "thank goodness
the bullet was deflected by a large metal coat button, it saved his life"....... due to the low velocity.
The highest velocity that Hodgdon shows is 595 fps with 85 gr and 1.4 gr of W231/HP38.

BUT - way better than harsh language, as a friend says.

Bill

 

[JWFilips]

Pistolero: Yes way ahead of it's Time!
& Yes the 32 and 32 acp are considered Warm weather pocket guns! They have been proven useless in cold weather (Heavy coats but the one nice thing is in warm weather the 32's rule for small conceal carry( Way better penetration then the 38 Kurtz ( 380!)
Once jackets are on and more clothes to conceal your arms you can move up to higher calibers...I think mother nature made it this way!

 

[Creeker]

I think mother nature made it this way!

Like that.

 

[Ben]

Fellows,

I started out in Post # 1 saying that I was well aware of the anemic qualities of the .32 S&W.

" And before you say it, I know the .32 is questionable as a " one shot - fight stopper".

Ben

 

[Creeker]

Brother I have nothing against your choice. If you opened fire on me with that 32 I'd want out of the way quick a possible.

 

[Pistolero]

I saw that Ben, and I still think that in warm weather, it would be handy. Also, NOBODY wants to get
shot and stats show that in something over 80% of "gun self-protection events" NO shots are fired.
So in 80% of cases, a .22 short is as good as a .500 S&W. Zero shots fired, show the gun and
perp instantly remembers an urgent need to be somewhere else, FAST.

I hope I didn't offend you, Ben. It was clear that you knew it wasn't a powerhouse, I was just commenting
on WHY. It has a reasonable bullet weight, and diameter beats the heck out of a .22.

I would be interested in knowing how accurate it might be. That barrel looks to be nicely
made. Might be a fun shooter, in addition to being a nice pocket pistol.

And, I have a .32 Savage that I occasionally carry. I do understand the little old pocket guns.

So Glock didn't invent anything new with the trigger blade safety. The Glock fan boys will
be SO disappointed.

Bill

 

[Ben]

Bill,

This pistol should be a fun gun.
Will I put myself in positions where it is my primary self defense pistol ? ? ......probably not.

Just a fun gun to play with. As far as I'm concerned this revolver is a piece of history, near 100 years old now.

There are obviously MANY, MANY handguns that are much better suited as " 1 shot Fight Stoppers ".


Ben

 

[Ben]

If I really believed I'd have to use a small concealed pistol, it would probably be my AMT .45 ACP Back - Up :

 

[Pistolero]

Now THAT is a serious pocket pistol! My brother has one - pretty snappy!

Amazingly, not all that much larger than my Savage .32 ACP.

Please pass on what you find out about the .32 revolver. I have never fired one, all of the
ones I have seen were completely worn out, no way to know what they could do "when young". Perhaps that
means that they were used a lot. This is a really fun part of collecting old guns, to learn about them.

Bill

 

[Ben]

Bill,

I think that most of the old ones that were made in the era of time that mine was made in , (1906 - 1908 ) were damaged more by black powder corrosion than by anything else. Most of the barrels on the old ones that I have looked at in the past few years had " sewer pipes " for barrels. I think very few people in that era of time really understood what black powder fouling could do to a nice barrel. Immediate cleaning ( after firing the revolvers ) wasn't a big priority.

Owners of the pistols shot them with black powder cartridges , they came home and tossed them in a drawer. You know the rest of the story.....

This one really caught my attention as having a particularly nice bore. The condition of the bore alone pushed me in the direction of taking this one home with me. I would rate the over-all condition of the revolver at about 85 - 90%. For a 100 year old revolver, I count myself fortunate to find this one.

Ben

 

[Ben]

Shot this today at 10 yards with my reloads.
1.3 B'Eye with 84 gr. W/C, sized .312".
Barrel is super clean when I was finished shooting.
I like it. I realize this is not " tack driving accuracy ", but it is a double action only revolver.
The little revolver is doing everything I'd hoped that it would do.

Ben

 

[9.3X62AL]

No flies on THAT performance, at all!

I have a similar model to yours in 38 S&W, nickel-plated and having an indifferent bore condition. Not the pot-hole bore corrosion that comes from black powder, more of a subtle sand-blasting by corrosive priming followed by decades of inattention. Throats are in the .361" Area Code, while the grooves slug out at a fat .359" or skinny .360". My usual stunt-work for this contraption is to size a .375" Hornady roundball in a .363" H&I die and seat the missile with its forward radius a little below the case mouth. One drop of LLA is placed on the ball's top after a slight roll crimp with seating. 1.0 grains of WW-231 makes things move. Kinda fun, actually--just a mild POP and the ball-ette scoots downrange. If the light is right behind you, the rounds are visible while enroute to target. The girls love these loads, and they will go through 200 of them in the 3 current 38 S&Ws in about a half hour. I definitely created a monster with this regimen.

 

[RicinYakima]

Great fun! when my kids where little, 35+ years ago, we would take a 3 pound coffee can of 38 WC's out in the sagebrush and not come home until they were gone. Take pictures and save them, they will treasure you for it. Trust me. Ric

 

[smokeywolf]

Although her favorite pistol was a 4" Colt Police Positive in 38 Special, Mom carried a 5-shot North American Arms 22 for the better part of 20 years and never had misgivings about whether or not it would get her out of trouble.

I like your H & R very much. You don't find 100+ year old pistols in that fine a condition all that often.

 

[300BLK]

I see 4 holes in that black square, and I would be thrilled to have that oldie shoot that well. Finding one of those old top breaks in that condition is a rarity.

My father had an old nickel plated 5 shot .32. It was a solid topstrap design with hammer spur, so pretty conventional. I don't recall it having cylinder throats, but more likely, straight through bored chambers. I shot it ONCE when a teenager. The only round of ammo that I could find that would fit was 32acp. It went bang and nothing bad happened, and that's the end of that story.

 

[Ben]

I see 4 holes in that black square

Yes, I started on an empty cylinder, the target only has 4 rounds in it.

Ben

 

[Ben]

I like your H & R very much. You don't find 100+ year old pistols in that fine a condition all that often.

Thank you,
I was very fortunate to find this one.

Ben

 

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir. That bore and those throats look like they left the factory this week, NOT a century ago.

 

[Ben]

I still believe someone owned this one that knew a little something about cleaning and taking care of a firearm.
I'm certain they are dead and gone, but credit is due to them for them efforts at taking care of this revolver.

I still say I don't want four of those .32 wadcutters headed my way.

Ben