And you just can't make this stuff up...

Bisley

Active Member
A few weeks back, Mrs. Bisley and I lodged with a Pastor who's desk was cleared, save for a copy of Firearms News. My late Dad was an FFL, so we began solving all the world's problems for a couple of hours. He shoots .50 BMG, but cannot find ammo for less that seven bucks a round. I showed him the SG Ammo online add, which had it linked in the 100-round can for a little over $400.00, shipped. Did my RCBS press accommodate .50 cal? I don't know, but go to Midway, or Ebay, and it should be easy to find one that does. We're both too busy to do that right now. And so on.

I mentioned casting as a way to ease one's personal shortage somewhat. Even for .50 cal., but it's a little time consuming. Lube vs. paper-patching to lube the bullets.

What about teflon spray, like they use to patch frying pans?

Well, Dad and I considered teflon tape once for .45-70, but it seemed too delicate for that application. The stuff tore off in handling. Lube or paper patch would be your best bet, but I am speculating as I don't shoot .50 BMG.

Well, that wasn't it, actually. And he's not thinking of doing anythiiiing, reaaaaaly. But can't he make AP ammo with the spray-on Teflon coating for frying pans?

*Sigh*

Sasquatch.
Super-secret Edwards AFB studio where they shot the moon landing.
Ayoobean Postulate.
Loch Ness Monster.
Teflon-coated, armor piercing bullets.

I thought the adults in the room had settled these questions by now.
 

Ian

Notorious member
To make AP you'd have to break off a piece of tungsten TiG electrode and cast a bullet around it. Doing so is illegal as all get-out anywhere in the world. I don't know how to make AP incendiary nor do I care. If it comes to that the civvies are hosed anyway so macht nicht.

Yes, we solved all that.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Illegal to make AP ammo? Really? What about the hundreds of thousands of rounds of WWII AP floating around?
 

Bisley

Active Member
That's what I don't get either. My host discussed the availability of AP/API/APIT ammo in 50 BMG. If you're conversant on this topic, you should understand that core composition and not coating determines penetrability (or whatever it's called).
 

JustJim

Active Member
Back when I had no fear of recoil, I teflon-patches some bullets for my Ruger #3. Patches and accuracy held up well with loads that Elmer Keith would have thought excessive. A friend swapped me out of the rifle and had me show him how to patch the bullets, just so he could watch others shoot the loads. If it held up under those conditions it might be worth a try in the BMG, but getting adequate case neck tension might be a problem.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Illegal to make AP ammo? Really? What about the hundreds of thousands of rounds of WWII AP floating around?

There are specific exemptions for military .30-06 AP for match purposes under GCA '68. It appears I was mistaken, AP is only prohibited for HANDGUN ammunition since LEO body armor isn't generally of the issue class to deter rifle bullets of any kind anyway.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
That part, commercial handgun ammo that will beat Level II, but I didn't know you couldn't make your own?
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Ian nails it. Truth to tell, 9mm NATO ball is a tough hombre to contain in soft body armor, as is FMJ 7.62 x 25 Tokarev. The Czech 7.62 x 25 meant for the CZ-52 (1700 FPS, FMJ) will go through front panel--an old Igloo water jug--and the back panel of Threat Level IIIA vests quite deftly. My range partners and I did that little test sequence for each graduating class at our academy. All of those non-veteran graduates needed a small reminder that body armor does not make them immortal. The CZ-52, a Mini-14, and an AK-47 did the heavy lifting. The holes through both panels--the water pouring out, and the lids getting lifted by the water displacement was a sobering observation.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
Had a job once that issued a bullet vest . The vest was rated for 44 mag at 6ft . It said on the tag it was guaranteed to stop a 44 mag .

I was told by a Deputy once that the only more thing more terrifying than a 22 LR in a long barreled auto was a bow with a broad head in it .
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
Would a vest stop a 405 form a 45-70 at 1400 FPS?

Any chance the wearer would survive if it did?
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
While it may stop the bullet, if a soft point, it would appear to be like a baseball at about 225 MPH. That is major soft tissue damage at that energy level.
 

Brad

Administrator
Staff member
While it may stop the bullet, if a soft point, it would appear to be like a baseball at about 225 MPH. That is major soft tissue damage at that energy level.
I bet the internal injuries would be devastating. And quite fatal.
 

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
I can solve one now . . . no such thing as "Super-secret Edwards AFB studio where they shot the moon landing."

Been working "other" super secret stuff there for a very long time. The moon landing was real!
 
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CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
There are a number of wound ballistics phenomena at play here. Trauma plates were featured on my vests starting about 1987; these were meant to further spread blunt force trauma along the front half of the vest. Even though actual vest penetration could be contained in Kevlar, the more powerful handgun rounds can still cause fatality via tissue disruption and deep contusions. One of our deputies took 4 rounds in the center-mass 10-ring from a 44 Magnum, and the trauma plate likely saved his life. Good guy, one of the few that later rose to command rank that was worth a darn. He spent some months healing up and recovering, but he was back to work within a year's time IIRC. I suspect a 45/70 would cause deeper bruising than did XXX's 44 Magnum wounds, which were pretty devastating.

We have shot crossbows and wheel-bows at our vests. Most broadheads don't penetrate much, unless they have a bodkin-type point ahead of the cutter vanes. They don't go far, even uber-sharp vanes get halted. Outright bodkin points defeat soft body armor just like they did chain mail and sheet armor at Agincourt, but velocity/mass isn't there like it is with a bullet. You will be wounded, but not to great depth.

I've only seen deer and bear shot with 45/70s--no people.
 

Mitty38

Shatterpated Constituent
I can solve one now . . . no such thing as "Super-secret Edwards AFB studio where they shot the moon landing."

Been working "other" super secret stuff there for a very long time. The moon landing was real!
Ye, but they cut out the evidence of alien life they found. You can tell where the film was spliced.
 
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462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
I can solve one now . . . no such thing as "Super-secret Edwards AFB studio where they shot the moon landing."

Been working "other" super secret stuff there for a very long time. The moon landing was real!
But . . . Can you be 100% certain there isn't other super secret stuff going on that you aren't aware of?
Edwards is a huge place, and every time I've driven by I've thought, what really goes on there?

Hmmm . . . maybe there's super secret goings on at the Borax plant, too. I've looked for the 20-mule teams and Ronald Reagan, but they weren't to be seen.

And . . . could some super secret stuff be happening under all those dry lake beds?

The Mojave is a very mysterious place. (Eerie music playing.)
 

CZ93X62

Official forum enigma
Edwards AFB and China Lake NAWS both have some *interesting* projects from time to time.
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Would a vest stop a 405 form a 45-70 at 1400 FPS?

Any chance the wearer would survive if it did?
Why would anyone strap a vest to a 18" live popple tree and shoot it with factory Remington 405 soft ammo from a Marlin lever gun while on a Winter encampment in the 1990's? The bullet went through the front panel, through the tree, and was caught by the back panel fully expanded like a Remington advertisement. I can't recall the brand of the vest right off hand, but a 2" Chief's Spl. was stopped by the first three layers with the back 1/3 of the bullet still sticking out. Factory jacketed .44 mag only made 6 layers of kevlar.

By the time we were done we had decided that vests and popple trees were not serious enough cover for .45-70's and .30-30s, but offered a fightin' chance against pistolas.
 

Bret4207

Northern NY Dangerous extremist...???
Most street level body armor is rated to stop the ammo of the officer wearing it and no more. What I found disconcerting was that I got my first vest in summer of 1987. The expiration date was summer of '92. I wore that vest into 2005-ish and then got a third vest just before retiring in '09. The original vest did help protect me in a few car crashes and from 2 people with knives and several that gave me body shots with their fists- proving I lack cat-like-reflexes! In my area the chance of me getting shot by a rifle was pretty high compared to a handgun, so I figured if it happened, well, that was all she wrote.