Any tips for loading hollow base bullets?
- Thread starter S Mac
- Start date
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I have done quite a bit of work with the HB's. They are very individualist as the thickness and volume of the HB determines what pressure is needed to get them to work. Soft alloys, under 10 BHn, need a medium powder in revolvers, while those from WW's, about 12 BHn, need something faster like Bullseye. Use as little crimp as possible for best accuracy. Keep velocity down to about 750 or less in revolvers, and use good lube in rifles as bore friction is high for a long time.
They are used for an expedient for mis-matched throats and barrels, but do make accuracy possible. With some revolvers, that is the only thing that will work.
They are used for an expedient for mis-matched throats and barrels, but do make accuracy possible. With some revolvers, that is the only thing that will work.
Might need a larger expander plug so I.D. of case doesn't reduce the now unsupported base bands. If for .38 Spec., try to find wadcutter brass..the stuff with dbl. cannelure knurling..inside of case is straight for greater distance before tapering in..also prevents base band sizing.
RBHarter
West Central AR
I hat this phrase ...... We need a little more information .
I have had 4 HB moulds . 1 that didn't get even close to what I was hoping for in terms of consistency . Another that when cast wasn't what it was said to be so I don't have any place to put it .
There are lots of common 45 cal HB rifle moulds available .
Like HPs hot pins are happy pins .
To loads I can't say what works for sure but I would make a suggestion of your hard expansion alloy for a given load level .
My research shows that common practice is to tuck paper tails in the base of paper patch and or to use the hollow as a lube chamber like a Minnie base plug . I shot a Lee HB 457-405 a few rounds in smokeless 45-70 for a Marlin 1895 . With slow for cartridge powders and 90%+ case fill it delivered no better best groups than the sister mould 458195 did to start .
With a base full of oinkbee or olivebee and a full snort of black FFg or FFFg ,depending on cartridge , would give some gains in odd shaped bores . Softer alloys like 1-20 to 1-40 on will be happy with BP , your soft pistol alloy could be a starting place for smokeless in rifles .
I have had 4 HB moulds . 1 that didn't get even close to what I was hoping for in terms of consistency . Another that when cast wasn't what it was said to be so I don't have any place to put it .
There are lots of common 45 cal HB rifle moulds available .
Like HPs hot pins are happy pins .
To loads I can't say what works for sure but I would make a suggestion of your hard expansion alloy for a given load level .
My research shows that common practice is to tuck paper tails in the base of paper patch and or to use the hollow as a lube chamber like a Minnie base plug . I shot a Lee HB 457-405 a few rounds in smokeless 45-70 for a Marlin 1895 . With slow for cartridge powders and 90%+ case fill it delivered no better best groups than the sister mould 458195 did to start .
With a base full of oinkbee or olivebee and a full snort of black FFg or FFFg ,depending on cartridge , would give some gains in odd shaped bores . Softer alloys like 1-20 to 1-40 on will be happy with BP , your soft pistol alloy could be a starting place for smokeless in rifles .
Ian
Notorious member
Wadcutter brass helps. The load and alloy should make the bullet work as intended, which is to puff up like Marilyn's dress and seal the cylinder and bore, so if it gets scrunched a little inside the case it doesn't matter that much.
I ended up loading mine backwards and at full power after reaming the undersized cylinder throats of the one revolver I had that really needed the HB to keep from leading. Straight, un-painted, tape-weight alloy with about 1% tin added to it pushed with a light load of 231 was excellent in my S&W with the bullet loaded as it was designed to be.
I ended up loading mine backwards and at full power after reaming the undersized cylinder throats of the one revolver I had that really needed the HB to keep from leading. Straight, un-painted, tape-weight alloy with about 1% tin added to it pushed with a light load of 231 was excellent in my S&W with the bullet loaded as it was designed to be.
KeithB
Resident Half Fast Machinist
I have a Rossi five shot .44 Special. The throats vary by .004" from smallest to largest. I have long wondered if a hollow based bullet might work better than a plain flat base bullet. I'd ream them all to the same size but that would just make all of them oversize (.435").
Never intended to shoot heavy loads in this gun, 200+gr at 750+fps ought to be enough for anything I'd need to use it for.
Didn't Lyman offer a 429421 type mold with a hollow base? Who offers hollow base molds now (for handguns, not BP rifles)?
Never intended to shoot heavy loads in this gun, 200+gr at 750+fps ought to be enough for anything I'd need to use it for.
Didn't Lyman offer a 429421 type mold with a hollow base? Who offers hollow base molds now (for handguns, not BP rifles)?
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
NOE has been offering moulds cut to .434 lately as a stock item, and I also see a few .432 HB wadcutter moulds listed. The 429421 Ideal/Lyman with a hollowbase was designated 429422, but it had a heavy hollow base, not intended to expand. Its purpose was to simply lighten the bullet without shortening it. It did succeed at this, but the bases had to be cast laser perfect or the bullet would turn left at Albuquerque on its way to the target. I had a really early version of 429422 a few years back to a collector who wanted it far more than I did.
S&W made a lot of M29s & M629s with .434 throats in the past. I still have my .434 Star die from my 629 MG. Back then I had to custom order a mould for it.
S&W made a lot of M29s & M629s with .434 throats in the past. I still have my .434 Star die from my 629 MG. Back then I had to custom order a mould for it.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Loading the Lee 405 45 HB in the 45-70 Marlin. Haven't done anything diff than any other except pan lube it vs tumble lube, and only because it has big fat lube grooves. It is intended for BP velocity. I am only pushing it at 1325 fps which is low (almost very low - basically under Trapdoor minimum load) 45-70 velocity. Had great success with it, both accuracy wise and as a deer thumper,
fiver
Well-Known Member
I kind of wonder if that rossi might not have a 430 barrel to go with those throats.
I would Bet Erik Ohlen could turn a regular mold into a hollow base mold without too much trouble and even give you a choice of skirt thickness.
[I know you could do it yourself too...but [shrug]
I would Bet Erik Ohlen could turn a regular mold into a hollow base mold without too much trouble and even give you a choice of skirt thickness.
[I know you could do it yourself too...but [shrug]
USSR
Finger Lakes Region of NY
A couple of month ago, I bought a 4 cavity MP mould that casts .38 caliber HBWC bullets. What I have found is best is to keep the tin high (2 - 3%) and the antimony low (< 1%) for a couple of reasons. First, mould fill out is better, and you want the thin base of the bullet to fill out reasonably well (Tip: If using a lubrisizer you can use a little extra downward pressure on the handle to sort of "swage" the base a little flatter with the soft lead). Second, the soft lead allows for the low pressure of HBWC rounds to interact better with the hollowbase and do it's job. Thirdly, as previously mentioned, get yourself some .38 Special wadcutter brass. The Winchester and Remington brass are easily identified by 2 cannelures at mid-case, while Federal have a single cannelure just north of mid-case. I had a custom .3575" expander made that expands deep into the case so that the thin base of the bullet does not get reduced in diameter by the case. Hope that helps.
Don
Don
Eutectic
Active Member
A lot of experience talking here..... A few points bear repeating. 'Hot pins'... Yes! I've cast over a gas furnace forever and had a 'spot' to place plug in the flame as the mold was opened and closed. I'd actually prefer nose cutoff molds all things considered. Mismatched throats???? Now there's a guy that has done some testing!
Many years ago a friend had a barrel blank. Don't know who make it (maybe Marlin) but it was .431" groove and the grooves numbered 12. It wasn't micro groove as groove depth was a full .004" with equal land and groove width. I traded him out of it! I had an old model Blackhawk and made a 12" barrel for it. It would bughole 240gr jacketed factory loads... Then I tried the #429421 Keith bullet. It shot lousy and showed some yaw on paper. Now back then 'twist' had to do with Chubby Checker for me! But my Dad had me measure the twist... It was one turn in 38"!! So I bought a Lyman mold..... #429422 Keith hollow base. This is a good bullet! Good in any twist! I shot it wide open in the Blackhawk; and it shot! Now a word of caution here...... Watch the lube groove to hollow base area for thickness! The thinnest point... Make sure there is enough 'meat' to prevent blowing off skirt which is a bad thing!
So a hollow base will allow the same length bullet to be used in a S L O W E R twist.
I don't have that Blackhawk anymore but did re-barrel a Colt SAA .44 Spl with the 8" stub that was left. It would shoot #429422 point on deadly accurate even down to 750fps!
Yes hollow base can be very, very good! I still have that old Lyman mold but don't use it anymore.... I made a hollow base boring tool and put the hollow base into a solid base #429421 just as fast if not faster than fighting the old single cavity mold and keeping the base pin hot! With no rejects!
Eutectic
Many years ago a friend had a barrel blank. Don't know who make it (maybe Marlin) but it was .431" groove and the grooves numbered 12. It wasn't micro groove as groove depth was a full .004" with equal land and groove width. I traded him out of it! I had an old model Blackhawk and made a 12" barrel for it. It would bughole 240gr jacketed factory loads... Then I tried the #429421 Keith bullet. It shot lousy and showed some yaw on paper. Now back then 'twist' had to do with Chubby Checker for me! But my Dad had me measure the twist... It was one turn in 38"!! So I bought a Lyman mold..... #429422 Keith hollow base. This is a good bullet! Good in any twist! I shot it wide open in the Blackhawk; and it shot! Now a word of caution here...... Watch the lube groove to hollow base area for thickness! The thinnest point... Make sure there is enough 'meat' to prevent blowing off skirt which is a bad thing!
So a hollow base will allow the same length bullet to be used in a S L O W E R twist.
I don't have that Blackhawk anymore but did re-barrel a Colt SAA .44 Spl with the 8" stub that was left. It would shoot #429422 point on deadly accurate even down to 750fps!
Yes hollow base can be very, very good! I still have that old Lyman mold but don't use it anymore.... I made a hollow base boring tool and put the hollow base into a solid base #429421 just as fast if not faster than fighting the old single cavity mold and keeping the base pin hot! With no rejects!
Eutectic
358156 hp
At large, whereabouts unknown.
Cheater....
Ian
Notorious member
You could cheat, too.....
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x...MI7KCc9oeU1QIVFbjACh0OWQviEAQYASABEgIAh_D_BwE
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-x...MI7KCc9oeU1QIVFbjACh0OWQviEAQYASABEgIAh_D_BwE
