BPCR, anyone?

Ian

Ian

Notorious member
So the Muzzeloader club I just joined added a BPCR competition to be held the day before each of their three annual matches, and I want to try it out for fun in June. Missed the last one because it wasn't advertised well and was a "gauging interest" and refining rules trial run, but it was quite successful and the next will probably be more so with more competitors.

I have only a little BPCR experience and only one qualifying rifle, a Shiloh 1874 Sharps in 45/90 WCF. Ranges are short, 100 and 200 yards, but the targets are tiny and many folks will be shooting 38/55s and other small, accurate chamberings. Position is cross sticks, any way you want, I think most will sit on armless chairs, stools, or benches.

Anyway, I need loading advise. As much as I love paper jackets I'll probably use lubricated cast bullets with a fiber card underneath. I read Venturino's book on shooting rhe buffalo rifles and learned very little. I have his and Garbe's SPG primer book and have not read it yet.

I have Lyman 45/90 dies, Lee 45/70 dies, a B&M powder measure, and 200 rounds of Starline nickel plated brass (all that was available 15 years ago). I have the Lyman Postell mould and the other one with the hemispherical nose, plus several others in the 350-400 grain range. I also have some aluminum arrow shafts and funnels to make a drop tube.

Where dies a fellow start?
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Not done the BPCR route, but did to CBA Big Bore bench rest to 300 yards. At 200 yards, a 400 grain bullet is plenty. Depending upon your twist (!), 70 grains of BP will get you there, just use wads to make up for the case length. Compressing the black powder is always a help, as is FFF. You don't need a ton on energy.

Short range is a game of marksmanship, not mechanical accuracy, IMHO. Remember that your .45 bullet will make up for the smaller .375 bullet is score targets.
 
3

300BLK

Well-Known Member
Don't bother reading the SPG Primer because its long out of date. Cross sticks prone is steadier than sitting. Make sure you have the same barrel pressure on the sticks for each shot or else you'll string vertically.

I would expect that Shiloh to be 1-18" twist, so the 400ish gr bullets and the short distance will be "enough". More bearing surface of bullet means less powder needed to fill the case. Remington 2-1/2 large pistol primers will be your friend as BP doesn't need much spark, and hotter primers will blow the groups open. Powder charge will be by VOLUME, and not necessarily by weight. Trickle the powder down the 18"+ droptube slowly so as to allow the powder to settle, add your card over-powder wad, and compress anywhere from 1-16" to whatever works. Seat the bullet onto the card, but don't compress with the bullet. You need just enough neck tension to keep the bullet in the case, and if you leave a little flare on the case mouth it helps to keep the cartridge centered in the chamber.

I shot Goex exclusively in matches back in the day because it worked for me. I haven't shot any of the Estes produced Goex, so have no recommendation. I shot some of the first Swiss imported into the country (packaged in Goex cans with paper labels), and my thought is that Swiss FFFg is fine for cap-n-ball revolvers. For 45-70 and larger cases, I liked Swiss Fg because the fouling wasn't as hard and dry, and easy enough to control with a blow tube between shots rather than wiping. There is less moving around, no changing of position, less time to be lost between shots when you might need to make sight corrections or wait for wind/mirage/smoke.

I don't know your course of fire, so if you have unlimited time to shoot your shots, do whatever is most accurate in your rifle. The guys that use fffg are wiping between shots to control fouling, and that added moisture will help to control the extra heat that fine grained powder is putting into the barrel. Texas in June sounds HOT, so you're going to need a lube that doesn't melt in ambient temp, let alone in the sun. SPG melts if you look at it.

Oh, and a '74 Sharps, be sure to have a little gap between the forend and receiver.
 
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L Ross

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Yes indeed, prone with sticks is steadier than seated. But prone with sticks kills my neck now-a-day. Seated, a little roll with the recoil of a .45-90, prone allows it to gradually change the angle of your collar bone.
Make sure you use a blow tube that fills the chamber completely so no moisture gets between the brass and chamber wall, I have seen case separations. Take some drinking water to the line with you to keep your breath moist. Twice when I fouled out on the line on 90° sunny days I was able to save the remainder of my shots by filling my mouth with water and blowing it through my blow tube down the barrel, then ran a couple of patches through the barrel and resumed shooting. That will also help cool a barrel.
Bull Shop's NASA BP lube was a game changer for me. I tried at least a dozen formulas and SPG and Glenn's BP lube. If, you can come up with some horse tallow I have a friend that has a recipe that works extremely well, maybe the best ever. He calls it Pegasus Lube.
You are going to like these games.
 
Premod70

Premod70

New Member
Shooting from a bench will give most folks a better chance at accuracy. The Shiloh 45-70 is a very accurate rifle in the right hands but a more modern rifle such as the Browning BPCR will give most a more stable recoil cycle. The 38-55’s with the lighter recoil will always excel at short range but shooting a BPCR is a hoot none the less. Also study the various cleaning techniques and the amount of time between shots, that can be the difference between an also ran and a day in the winners column. Good luck and most importantly have fun.
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Thanks, guys, that gives me a little more to go on.

It is usually 104 to 110 degrees at the range in June, according to the regulars. Firing line is shaded all day as the range faces north and has a long roof sloping to the south....unless you're on the ends. 92 spots and only nine competitors last time, I think there will be plenty of elbow room and shade for us. But still.....I'm stumped on lube. In the past I used Emmert's or a slightly modified Emmert's for both grease grooves and cookies, it worked well but I didn't punish it, either. That's where I plan to start because I don't intend to spend three years and involve half the internet in another bullet lube "inquiry". Although.....I made a killer soda grease with castor bean oil one time.
 
J

JustJim

Well-Known Member
In hot weather I sometimes use a variant of one of Paul Matthew's recipes:

Melt 4 ounces by weight of beeswax in a double boiler. Add 2 ounces by weight of castor oil; stir til thoroughly mixed and no lumps remain. Add 2 ounces by weight of Murphy's oil soap; stir thoroughly (being careful of the reaction when the soap is added--it foams up) until no lumps remain. Pour into moulds and allow to cool.

Note that this works best in a pressurized lube-sizer, it doesn't like to be re-melted for pan lubing.
 
S

steveu

New Member
Ian said:
Thanks, guys, that gives me a little more to go on.

It is usually 104 to 110 degrees at the range in June, according to the regulars. Firing line is shaded all day as the range faces north and has a long roof sloping to the south....unless you're on the ends. 92 spots and only nine competitors last time, I think there will be plenty of elbow room and shade for us. But still.....I'm stumped on lube. In the past I used Emmert's or a slightly modified Emmert's for both grease grooves and cookies, it worked well but I didn't punish it, either. That's where I plan to start because I don't intend to spend three years and involve half the internet in another bullet lube "inquiry". Although.....I made a killer soda grease with castor bean oil one time.
Click to expand...
If it’s that hot , you should think about wiping between shots for your fouling control.
 
glassparman

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
Once I get settled in at my Blanchard, OK home, I'm going to find a group. I love my BPCR guns and need to learn from some others who already compete.

1873 Swiss Vetterli 10.4x38mm converted to CF
1884 Trapdoor .45-70
1886 Portuguese Kropatschek 8x60mmR

Maybe looking for some sort of falling or rolling block at the Wanenmacher show next weekend.

What else is popular in the competitions?
 
J

JustJim

Well-Known Member
Pick a game and get the rules--what rifle qualifies in one won't necessarily qualify in another. Figure if you want an original or repro, and what cartridge you want to shoot. Find out what folks around you are shooting--games, rifles, and cartridges.

Rolling blocks are popular in almost all disciplines. Hepburns show up sometimes. Sharps are frequently seen (but do some checking before buying a Farmingdale gun as chambers can be not well-suited for how they are used today). Martinis are good in the games they qualify for. Stevens are popular in some sports, and in some circles, as are Ballards.
 
glassparman

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
Thanks Jim! Is there a popular caliber? I tend to go for weird stuff. I was considering a falling block in 43 Spanish.
 
J

JustJim

Well-Known Member
Best advice I can give is to wait til you see what the local folks are like, and what the local games are. Meantime, you've got a trapdoor--it isn't the most competitive rifle in most games, but you can have a lot of fun with it while you get to know people and see what rifles and calibers are popular in your area, and why. Almost anyone who shoots BPC has spent time with a 45-70 trapdoor, so it gives you an "in" wherever you go.

Brass availability is a big factor these days. Nothing wrong with a .43 Spanish or Reformado/44-77 Remington/577-450/40-70 Straight/45x2.6/etc if you can source brass, and don't mind having to figure where to start. But you should also have a good rifle in a more-common chambering, so you can always shoot and can benefit from the work of others. A lot of research and experimentation has been done with .45 and .40 caliber rifles, so there are good starting points.

The 45-70 is hard to beat for anything out through mid-range (out to ~600 yards), maybe longer if you know how to load it "right". Paul Matthews' books will set you up with the basics of match shooting with one. If you want to load ammo to match the military issue stuff, Spence Wolfe's book will get you started (although some folks don't agree with all of his methods, especially on primers).

Most of the stuff you get to load BP 45-70 (measures, drop tube, maybe moulds) will carry over to other cartridges, as will a lot of the stuff you learn with it. The 40-65 is a necked-down 45-70. I try to stick with the straight cases; bottleneck cases require some different loading techniques that I've never completely got the hang of.
 
glassparman

glassparman

"OK, OK, I'm going as fast as I don't want to go!"
Dang Jim! Great info. I have a bunch of .45-70 brass and already have my drop tube setup and cast my own 405 gr so I guess starting with that is best. I just like odd ball stuff.

My trapdoor is an original from my father's collection but I love to shoot it.
 
Missionary

Missionary

Well-Known Member
My 1st BPCR was / is a 238xxx Trapdoor with a Buffington sight on it. Once I got an accurate 500 grain RN load figured out I could hit a Sillywet ram at 500 yards most the time. And anything that 500 grainer cast of 40-1 hit it would move out of the way fast.
This Trapdoor has a very fat chamber. A .463 will slip fit in a fired brass. That was my 1st NEI mold. A .458 500 RN would not "Bump up" enough to get better than 3 foot groups at 500.
 
RicinYakima

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Repairing the lawn and flower bed sprinkler system. Then watch afternoon baseball, while napping.
 
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