Carbide sizers

[beagle]

Carbide! When I first started loading .38 Special. it was with steel dies and the "greasy kid stuff" as lube. I thought it worked fine. Then, my mentor loaned me his (I think Pacific) carbide sizer. I was in heaven and sized every .38 case in sight before I returned it. Procurement priorities changed and this went to Number one. Over the years, I've had three. If I had a penny for every case sized, I'd be considerably richer. The first one lasted through my Army days and well into civilian life. Occassionally, it would start scratching and the first time, I said, "Oh no". Thought a while and went to the bench. I took a wooden dowel and split it and slipped a very fine piece of emery cloth in the split, inserted it in the die and at very low speed polished it out several times. Then, I flushed with kerosene and did a normal cleaning with a swab and Ed's Red. Back to new. Occassionally pieces of grit will get caught between the carbide bushing and the steel die. Easily polished out using this method. Finally after 3-4 of these cleanings, the carbide insert came out. If you've never seen the setup, a carbide bushing the diameter of the case to be sized and 3/16" thick is fastened in place at the mouth of the die. Whether by Loctite, epoxy, autofretedge or a combination is unknown. I had a spare so I tossed it. In hindsight, wish I'd tried to repair it. Since then, the Lord smiled down on me with another spare at a flea market. I always keep a spare.
You can sometimes get away with this method on steel dies for a couple of times but I've not had long term results with this. Best to clean and tumble brass first./beagle

 

[Jeff H]

That's a neat history - cool story.

I grew up with steel dies, but when I joined the Army and was thousands of miles from home - and dad's reloading equipment, I had to buy my own, and on a GI's pay.

A thoughtful and considerate gun shop owner in Salinas California helped me get set up and introduced me to LEE reloading equipment, under the pretense that I could eventually "upgrade" when I had more cash. I'm still using most of that initial setup 42 years later.

The one lightyears leap forward I took from the stuff I used growing up was a LEE carbide, three die set for 44 Spl/Mag. The proprietor showed me that the whole LEE die set, WITH the carbide die cost less than JUST a carbide die from either RCBS or Lyman at the time.

Still using it, haven't looked back, but I DO wish it did not size the cases down quite as much as they do compared to the old steel ones I grew up with.

Full disclosure: I still consider carbine dies "newfangled contraptions," but they look like they might just prove to be worth hanging onto yet.

 

[RicinYakima]

Good story! Since I collect old presses, I have several "Lifetyme" sizing dies, from Los Angles, in the 1930's. They were only for pistol cartridges, but not only the big makers of dies, but also the little ones, like Jordan and Belding and Mull. Scratches are almost always cause by dried dirt. These folks had the patent for the process of making carbide rings in dies, so they had the whole market up until the 1950's.

Today, it is not a problem to repair the dies if the insert is lose or falls out. Clean the die and cement the insert with Loctite #620.

 

[Bazoo]

I polish galling out of dies with very fine (1000 grit) sandpaper or scotchbrite pad. I've done several steel dies, including a 30-30 which I have done several times and recorded the measurements of the sized brass before polishing and after. It moved so little that I wasn't able to see it at all with the calipers I was using. I didn't have a mic at the time, but I'm adept with my calipers.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

I know there are people that don’t like carbide sizing dies because they don’t like the final dimensions they get. I totally understand that. I also completely understand the cost argument.

But when loading large volumes of handgun cartridges, particularly on a progressive press – carbide is the way to go. IMO.

With carbide sizing dies you need clean cases but not lubricated cases. Not only is this a time saver, but it’s also just easier to deal with dry casings and cartridges.

I know – lazy. Guilty as charged!

Now for rifle cartridges, where I’m loading far fewer cartridges per session, steel dies are fine.

Thank You Beagle for the great write-up.

 

[CZ93X62]

My tungsten-carbide sizing dies are all RCBS make. My 32 caliber T/C die produces .335" diameter finished cases--well-nigh perfect. My 38/357 dies (from 1978) gives a .379" product.......again perfect.

Same story with the 9 x 19, 9mm Makarov, 40/10mm, and 41 Magnum--all on spec or .001" undersized, which I can live with.

Where things go south (and unreasonably undersized) is with 44 Spec/Mag, 45 ACP, and the 45 Colt. These are all makers of 'Coke-bottle' brass. I have resorted to steel sizing dies in 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt, and the 45 ACP gets sized in the 45 Colt T/C sizer for a .471" finished size. That's right--.009" undersized in 45 Colt.

 

[Winelover]

Started reloading for 38/357, back in the 70's, with RCBS steel die set. Didn't know about carbide die options, until shortly after that. Purchased a separate RCBS carbide sizer. Never looked back. All my pistol/revolver dies ( 38/357, 9 mm, 44 Russian, 44 Spl/44 Mag, 45 LC) are carbide, even the RCBS Cowboy dies. I enjoy the loading process, However, hate drudgery.

Do they even make carbide dies for bottle-necked rifle cartridges?

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Ill always have BOTH! As mentioned Carbide are quicker and "easier" as lube is not required... But also as mentioned dimensionally they are not equal. Wish, I had a dollar for every person who has complained of fitment of there 9mm after carbide die sizing. Only ta learn a steel die sizes more completely.

CW

 

[Rick]

Started reloading for 38/357, back in the 70's, with RCBS steel die set. Didn't know about carbide die options, until shortly after that. Purchased a separate RCBS carbide sizer. Never looked back. All my pistol/revolver dies ( 38/357, 9 mm, 44 Russian, 44 Spl/44 Mag, 45 LC) are carbide, even the RCBS Cowboy dies. I enjoy the loading process, However, hate drudgery.

Do they even make carbide dies for bottle-necked rifle cartridges?

I don't think that's what the deputy was saying. He said his carbide dies in 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt turns them into bottle neck cases.

 

[Winelover]

I don't think that's what the deputy was saying. He said his carbide dies in 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt turns them into bottle neck cases.

That was in response to P&P's post.

I know there are people that don’t like carbide sizing dies because they don’t like the final dimensions they get. I totally understand that. I also completely understand the cost argument.

But when loading large volumes of handgun cartridges, particularly on a progressive press – carbide is the way to go. IMO.

With carbide sizing dies you need clean cases but not lubricated cases. Not only is this a time saver, but it’s also just easier to deal with dry casings and cartridges.

I know – lazy. Guilty as charged!

Now for rifle cartridges, where I’m loading far fewer cartridges per session, steel dies are fine.

Thank You Beagle for the great write-up.

 

[Rick]

Oh . . . Well, never mind then.

 

[obssd1958]

As to carbide dies for bottleneck cases, this came from the Dillon website:
"For high volume users, such as commercial reloaders, law enforcement agencies, and high power or service rifle competitors, we also offer .223 and .308 die sets with a full-length carbide sizing die. Lubrication is still required, but the increased scratch resistance and die longevity of carbide are of great benefit to these groups of users."
They do command a premium though - $260+ per set!

 

[Ian]

Redding Dual Ring. Buy once, cry once, problem solved.

 

[462]

Redding Dual Ring. Buy once, cry once, problem solved.

Didn't you have to do some speciality work to one of the .45 ACP dies?

 

[richhodg66]

I went back to using old steel dies for my .45 Colt loadings after the Lee carbide set seemed to be over sizing brass. I also tend to lube cases even when using carbide dies, not real lube, a quick wope with a rag dampened in Ed's Red. Makes sizing smoother.

 

[CZ93X62]

I don't think that's what the deputy was saying. He said his carbide dies in 44 Spec/Mag and 45 Colt turns them into bottle neck cases.

Yessir. They did way too good a job of resizing.

 

[MW65]

... I also tend to lube cases even when using carbide dies, not real lube, a quick wope with a rag dampened in Ed's Red. Makes sizing smoother.

I do a very light spritz of something just to make it smoother.... one shot/very dilute lanolin... wipes off easy when I'm done and getting ready to bag/box up the ammo

 

[beagle]

I understand the bottleneck conceptin .44s. For several years I used a .44 Mag TC die to neck size .444 cases. Decapped with a universal decap die. Removed decapping assembly and inserted a pencil through top of the die and marked it so that I would get consistent sizing depth and continued on. Worked like a charm in my Marlin M95./beagle

 

[RBHarter]

My complaint ,aside from the Lee 380 that has a radial crack in the ring , is the Coke bottle effect .

I have an old Lyman 45 ACP and 9×19 RCBS that doesn't but every single carbide sizer I had for 45 Colts or 38/357 did . The Lee 460 S&W doesn't but my Raptor was chambered with a 45 ACP reamer instead of the 460 reamer . It really should do it even worse ........

I don't mind having to lube cases for steel dies , but I don't shoot 10-30,000 a yr . Of late it's been more like 10-30/yr .

 

[Brad]

My carbide dies just have not been a concern in any caliber except 45 Colt as far as bottleneck cases are concerned.
I blame the massive chambers in my Ruger and Marlin for this as it doesn’t happen with cases fired in my Smith.
in the 45 Colt it does reduce case life to roughly 10 firings but I have not noticed any issues in any other case. Again, the case life suffers as much from the chaknee size as anything.

Lubing pistol brass to size then Cleaning off the lube? Not in my house, I ain’t got time for that.