Charter Arms Bulldog in .45 ACP

[Jeff H]

My experience has been exactly the same with several three-inch Bulldogs - 200 grain bullets shoot way low at 25 yards. They'll still group 2.5", but several inches low. 240 to 250 - dead-on. I've even shot 265 grain RFNs when I was participating (notice that I didn't say competing) in pin shoots. The 240s and 250s were certainly decisive enough, but what the heck, right? The 265s sent the pins off the table even more decisively.

I agree on the triggers out of the box - they've all been good. My most recent, a 3" 357 Mag Pug has actually been the best out of the box so far for DA, but there's a very faint "hitch" in SA just before letting go. Ironically, I've never had to tune the SA on one of these, so I don't really even know which surface to fix, or what angle to try to hold. They're so danged small and I don't see little stuff up close that well any more, so I haven't messed with it.

I've shot these guns a lot in SA, because they've long been my "trail/woods gun" and would be fully capable of doing some small game hunting. I remember an article a former, famous gun writer wrote on using a 3" Pathfinder for hunting squirrel. I was describing the article to Jeff Quinn and he comes back and tells me he he actually owned that very revolver! I'm not sure who has it now.

I've been a fan of these guns for a long time. I just wish I hadn't gotten complacent when I was picking up Stratford and Bridgeport-production guns for $150 used. Of all the guns I've had and let go over the years, these are the ones I really wish I had kept, 22s, 38s and 44s. The new 357 is first 357 Charter I've owned and I've passed on several more expensive, "nicer" revolvers in favor of the Charters. I told a friend the other day that if I really, truly wanted a different (more expensive) revolver, I'd find a way to have it. I have other guns which aren't "cheap" as proof of that.

 

[Winelover]

Charter's fill a niche void. Lightweight, reliable and inexpensive. Backed by a lifetime manufacture's warranty and made in the good old USA. This is coming from someone whose very first handgun purchase was a Colt Python. I still own every handgun, I've ever purchased. Ruger's, Smith's, Colt, Browning, Beretta, Kahr, Sig, Springfield and Charter. The only one that went back to the factory, so far, was the 6" Royal Blue Python. Barrel was coming unscrewed after a few hundred rounds.

 

[Jeff H]

Exactly!

I think many miss out because they try to compare them to Colts and Smiths. When I was shopping for my first Cherokee in 2000, all the reviews in the car magazines knocked off points for "the ride" and the "interior appointments." Well, as the service manager at the dealership so accurately asserted, "it's not a Lexus." My kidneys are still intact and I've driven one every day that I've driven for 23 years.

 

[Walks]

I had a friend that had an old one from the 1980's. I cast up a bunch of Lee #429-208-WC that dropped at 214grs from the mold. He put the up in .44Russian cases with a light charge of Bullseye. In that short case with a bullet that seats deep it doesn't take much Bullseye to propel a bullet at 800fps+. He did file the front sight to bring up the point of impact.

 

[Uncle Grinch]

I bought a 44 Spl Bulldog for my late wife a few years back. Standard loads were a little too much for her in the light little handgun. I loaded up some of these with a mild charge of Red Dot. I sold the gun after she passed, but still have a GP100 in 44 Spl.

 

[Missionary]

That is a serious hole puncher if I have ever seen one ! What is the weight ?

 

[Bret4207]

The 429421 and 6-6.5 grs Unique has worked well for me in my BD. I've used the "Skeeter Load" and it grouped well for me but the torque, to the left IIRC, was pronounced and it was too much fun for that light gun. I've put down numerous cattle, horses, dogs etc and never had an issue with the lighter Unique charges being "under powered". In fact they sometimes exit the neck with a frontal shot. Put the same load in my Rossi "Puma" 44mag and you have a really nice kind of plinking load. Don't think I ever put it over a chrono out of a rifle. Great for getting a kid from the 32-20 level stuff to something that jumps around a bit more.

 

[Jeff H]

The 429421 and 6-6.5 grs Unique has worked well for me in my BD. I've used the "Skeeter Load" and it grouped well for me but the torque, to the left IIRC, was pronounced and it was too much fun for that light gun........

Same. "Skeeter Load" is accurate, but a bit much to control if yoiu need to shoot twice, but no ill effects on the gun. The lighter loads are still eminently useful and still offer significant punch. Hitting about 800 FPS is about where I stop on those and that's no slouch of 240 or 259 grain load.

Don't think I ever put it over a chrono out of a rifle. Great for getting a kid from the 32-20 level stuff to something that jumps around a bit more.

Given the longer barrel, I'd suspect that even with the "fastish" burn of the Unique loads, you'd see significant enough boost in velocity (at 44 Special pressures) that they would transcend anything in velocity you'd want to try to achieve from a 21 ounce revolver. With some tweaking and experimentation, a fella might be able to achieve 44 Mag HANDGUN velocities from the carbine barrel, even with 44 Special pressures. I don't think anyone needs to make any excuses for the 44 Mag handgun as a viable deer combination.

I had a Marlin 94 in 44 Mag, back when I shot the 44 Mag. This was before I had evolved to the point of appreciating much milder 44 Mag loads to be much more fun and still plenty potent, so I was shooting full-out 44 Mag loads from it and it was much more unpleasant than shooting them from the revolvers. Looking back, I probably could have seen very useful increases in velocity from that longer barrel had I not bee trying to find a "big bear load." We don't even HAVE bears here anyway.

NOW, I'm playing with the same idea, but with the 357. In the 357 Mag combination, I see 180-grain, 900 fps loads from the 3" barrel hit 1200 fps in the carbine. I would not want to shoot a lot of 1200 fps, 180 grain loads from the twenty-some-ounce 3" revolver, but the "sane" load (in the revolver) using "fastish" powders yields a magnum-like velocity from the longer barrel. Not-quite-magnum loads in the revolver can easily become magnum loads from a carbine, IF we're looking at the bullet after it exits the muzzle. THIS is a very handy feature of the revolver/carbine combo.

Maybe not the best "big bear load," but very useful at flattening trajectory between 50 and 75 yards for general-purpose (99%) use in the carbine, while being "punchy" enough in the handgun without qualifying me as a masochist. Unique has been my go-to so far, but this balance can be tougher when going for suppressed carbine/pocket revolver combinations. When you hit enough velocity in the revolver, it's a tad too much in the carbine (noise), so I think I may need to invest in more Bullseye some day, BUT look at Herco if you're trying for a good, general-purpose combo load in a light revolver/carbine and are not concerned about staying sub-sonic in the carbine. I've not made it back to Herco yet on this pass.

Much more of the published load data become more useful now. Many trusted sources don't realize how fast you can push cast bullets if you do everything right, so they keep the velocities in a range very amenable to this concept.

Speaking of "combos," it's too bad that the right combination time, disposable income and brains was so lopsided when I was younger, compared to now. When I had enough time and the cash, I didn't have enough brains. I think I've finally caught up a little on the brains part, but now find myself coming up short on the other two! Or, maybe, if I really AM smarter now, then why AM I now short on the other two?? Ah, life's mysteries...

 

[crackers]

Stopped by a local shop and looked at one of these. I've had a .⁴ one for 30 plus years and like it, but a .45 ACP one would be more pratical in many ways. Does this system they use so it diesn't require a moon clip of some sort work well? Just seems like a weak point on an otherwise neat gun.

I’ve had one for a few years. A lap and a polish to the chambers helps a lot - there’s a lot of surface area to move in the rough. Doing that, I hooked and pulled a tab but Charter fixed it free, so +1 for them. The original hammer spring wasn’t enough snap, (40% failure) but a Wolfe ‘plus power’ keeps it at 100% bangability. The grip frame is the same as all Charters so the small, concealable woods will fit - they hide the gun but not the pain.
A random event happens when cycling too slowly - the bolt drops and the cylinder jumps the next slot and parks in limbo. That hasn’t happened enough for me to have an answer, or to matter in real-life, save my ass speed, but it’s there.
With the + hammer spring the DA pull is tiring but the SA pull would shame Colt. Totally out of class for the gun.
It fits in a generous waistband and is just a no-frills fight stopper. No time wasted on that double-tap crap, and number six gets whacked with a big hammer.

 

[CZ93X62]

I have always liked the 5-shot 44 Special snubgun as a practical carry gun concept. I haven't owned a Charter Arms revolver. The closest I've come to doing so was 2 years ago when a S&W Model 69 showed up at The War Toy Emporium I infest. 4.25" barrel, L-frame, 44 Magnum. If it had a 3" barrel I would have wrapped it up. Full-tilt 44 Mags might have been a bit too much fun, but some Skeeter's Load duplicators (9.0 grains of Herco under #429421) would certainly do to ride the river with.

 

[Winelover]

Anything over 2.5 inches requires a holster. I have deep pockets and the CA Bulldog barely fits. The S&W 24-3 is far from pocketable.

 

[Jeff H]

Anything over 2.5 inches requires a holster. I have deep pockets and the CA Bulldog barely fits. The S&W 24-3 is far from pocketable.

Love the N-Frames, but too big for me, even with a holster. I've had one in 44 Special and 45 Colt and they were gems, both 4", but both too big for me to carry concealed, let alone in a pocket.

A 2", 5-shot 38 on a small frame is the upper-limit for me to carry one in a pocket holster, totally concealed, but I can easily conceal a 3" Bulldog IWB without looking like I have a tumor on my torso.

The 3" Bulldog is "pocketable," even for me in the sense that it's a perfect fit to drop into a back pants pocket when I head out the back to to investigate a bump in the night. Enough of the gun is below the top of the pocket that it won't fall out if things get a little exciting and enough of it sticks out the to get a good purchase on for fumble-free retrieval. I definitely would not go about carrying it that way as a CCW, although a shirt-tail or jacket covers it unless bending or reaching too much.

Can't do that with a 4 or 2". The 4" leaves too much hanging out the top, such that it threatens to fall out and the 2" makes me go fishing for it.

 

[CZ93X62]

Different strokes for different folks. I seldom carry WITHOUT a holster. My only true pocket revolver is a S&W 642, and while better than throwing rocks it doesn't give me warm, fuzzy feelings like a Glock 23 or CZ-75B in 40 S&W. Goblins worth shooting are worth shooting properly. We all have biases--these are mine.

 

[Winelover]

Belt holsters are a PITA, if you carry all day long. Tried it for a week, and all I got out of it was scratches on the back of our wooden kitchen chairs. God forbid, they wear out our leather furniture or vehicle upholstery.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

My arbitrary line between a DA revolver and snubnose DA revolver is a barrel length of 2.5”.

2 ½” or shorter qualifies as a snubnose in my book.

Pocket carry has numerous pros and cons on both sides of that equation. I will say that pocket carry in my world requires a bobbed hammer or internal hammer.

For me…..The big bore / snubnose combination is outside of the realm of pocket carry. That has more to do with the overall size of the gun than simply barrel length. YMMV.

With the Airweight S&W DAO J-frames and 1 7/8” barrels at one end of the spectrum, and 2 ½” 357 magnum, K-frames at the other end, you get a hierarchy of snubnose types by size. The 2” Colt Detective Special and 2.25” Ruger SP101 are in the middle of that hierarchy.

I have pocket holsters for 2” K-frames but, for me, they are generally too large for concealed pocket carry. That’s not carved in stone.

The 2.25” SP101 with a bobbed hammer is smaller than a 2” Colt D-frame, but it is heavy for its size. The 2” Colt D-frames are just slightly smaller than the 2” S&W K-frames. For me…. the 2” K-frame is the beginning of holster carry territory. Again YMMV.

 

[Jeff H]

Maybe I'm misusing the term "pocket-carry," which I see t hat I toss around kind of carelessly as I read more in this thread. If "pocket-carry" is primarily understood as being a FRONT pocket of one's PANTS, I'm abusing the term half the time. A 3" revolver is too much for a front pants pocket for me.

Certain COAT pockets and pants' BACK pockets for impromptu excursions outside at night to see what creature is raising havoc, is workable and convenient. I would not carry concealed off the property or too far from the house like that.

I agree on OWB belt holsters banging things up, if they don't such the butt of the gun into your side. I'm not a big guy and have developed a very long-established habit of slipping through small openings and closely to things without thinking about it, so I won't even carry a phone on my hip. I'll beat the crap out of the thing or tear it off my belt.

I was in a Highway Patrol post once, several decades ago while considering a future outside the military. Something which caught my eye and gave me a chuckle was how spotless and neat the place was, like a new building, except for the latch side of every door-jamb looking like it had been mauled by a bulldog. The butts of all the Troopers' fat wooden revolver grips (every one I saw was a COLT) were chewing away at the wood trim over time as they passed through the doors.

By the way, I did not receive a "free ride" to the post. I was there invited there to discuss qualifications for employment. I ended up re-upping for an assignment which was too cool to walk away from, so that was as far as my personal LE experience went.

 

[Rick H]

I wear holsters, mostly inside waistband for EDC, particularly in warmer weather. I have never found anything that was comfortable and readily available while in a pocket. That includes small flat auto's and shrouded/bobbed revolvers.

My guess is that carry preference is very dependent on body type and types of activities you generally engage in. I have tried pocket carry and it just doesn't work for me.

 

[Winelover]

Cargo pockets work the best for pocket carry...........long pants or short. You have two options, the normal pocket most of the time. If you're seated a lot, then the cargo pocket. The cargo pocket is usually larger and deeper. It will hold a
2 1/2" Bulldog or a 3" J-frame size revolver.

The cargo pocket will aid to mask the firearm that's carried in the normal pocket.

BTW, all my carry pieces are DAO, hammerless or shrouded.

 

[Bret4207]

"Pocket carry" to me is the gun in the front pocket. That gets you to talking about just what kind of trousers you wear and how you wear them. If you're a guy that like his pants fitting pretty snug and if you wear common dress type stuff, you aren't going to have a lot of room or a lot of pocket to start with. If you wear loose jeans and luck onto a brand that has roomy pockets with a large opening to reach in through (not all do) that's a whole different thing. My BD will fit in some front pockets, but not all, and it's kinda at the max size at that. The Smith Bodyguard fits a whole lot better. OTOH, the small of the back holsters often give you a good option. I'm not a big fan of strong side hip holsters for civilian carry, especially in warmer weather. Too many people get their panties in a knot if they see a gun. Keep it out of sight seems to work for me.

 

[Winelover]

Arkansas doesn't care if the gun prints. Some states do.