Cimarron 1894 26" 38-55

[oscarflytyer]

Couple new ones (to me) on the way. Will list both, but separate posts for each due to the differences. Will provide what I have and looking for any experience/guidance you guys have. Thanx

1) Cimarron 1894 26" 38-55 (NIB)
2) Browning Model 53 Deluxe 32-20

The Cimarron 38-55 (decided NOT to rebore my '73 Marlin 336 Texan 30-30 to 38-55. Just couldn't bring myself to do it, what with no more JM Marlins, it's a Texan/straight stock! I gave it to one of my sons so I wouldn't do anything stupid like sell it or rebore it! lol!)

Supposed to have a .379-.380 bore, and 1-18" twist (according to Venturino; I have seen the twist listed as 1-12", but I believe Mike/1-18", as he states it is the exact clone of his original Winchester).

I have a Lee 378-250-RF 2c. This seems to be the mold nearly everyone is using. Not cast with it yet. Figure I can get it to at least .379, and prob .380 no problem.

Set of RCBS Cowboy dies otw.

Research sounds like the Starline 2.125" 38-55 brass is the way to for original spec 38-55 rifle.

I WILL put a tang sight on it so I can see/shoot it! Otherwise a barn door is safe at 35 yds, as I can't see/use original sights!

W/r/t load data (assuming the ~250 grn bullet): I see 19 gr of 5744 (Venturino), (of course Red Dot, of which I have none), 9-10 gr Unique and 16-18 gr 2400. Also 21.0 gr of IMR 4198 (Waters).


Based on the above - keep me b/n the white lines! And TIA - you guys always provide the best info!

 

[Ole_270]

I've seen some claim the Starline 2.125" brass is for the breech seated bullets and is too long for normal chambers. I use the shorter version, Starline 2.082 in my JES rebore with great accuracy and no problems whatsoever. Well, other than keeping enough loaded that is.
Edit to add that the two most used loads here are 10- Universal and 21-4198 with a tuft of dacron.
I started out with the Lee mold you have and it worked very well. Stepped up to a 4 cavity Accurate 38-250B that is real similar to speed up the casting process.

 

[oscarflytyer]

cause I know you catch hell/it doesn't happen w/o pics! Now to get set up to reload and also figure out what peep sight I will use. I am leaning towards the Providence Lyman 21 repro. Period correct of a 38-55 and also no qualms whatsover d&t'ing this one as it is a repro rifle vs original. Would love to have it set up for deer season next season!

 

[Spindrift]

Nice rifle, Oscar!

 

[Glaciers]

Nice Oscarflyer, I really like how the full rifle 94 points!

I have one of the Providence #21 sites, not installed yet, but, I'm wavering on which rife to install it on. Marlin - Winchester? Been about 4 years I might make up my mind this spring. Maybe.
I have only one rifle that sports a #21 and that's a old beat up 95. Have had others but they, with a bunch of other Winchesters went away in a moment of stupidity.
Not a fan of tang sits, while they give you a good site picture, the competition for space space with my hand grip left a lot to be desired. Bench shooting there ok, but woods carry, off hand, quick pointing, just in the way. So I've always leaned to a receiver site for a good site picture and for bench and field shooting.
Full disclosure, I am going to install a Marbles reproduction tang site on my original 1885 38-55. It will pretty much just see bench time and it will not damage the gun as it just screws on.
I believe LRoss is using a reproduction Marbles site on one of his rifles.

John

 

[CZ93X62]

My most-shot bullet in my JES-rebored 37/55 has been the Lee 250 grain FN plain-base (actually a bevel-base). That bullet's pet load has been 22.0 grains of IMR-4198, which gives ~1300 FPS from the 20" carbine barrel.

I use the sobriquet "37/55" to describe this re-bored rifle to illustrate a kink that cropped up early in load development for this caliber. My view is that a significant amount of the load data existing for the 38/55 was developed using undersized bullets--.375" in .379"-.381" grooves and throats. If your bullets fit well, make haste slowly in working up loads in ladder fashion. 21.0-22.0 grains of 4198 won't cause grief, but as you try to exploit the added strength of the Win 1894 action using gas-checked bullets past 1700 FPS you can get rude surprises in the form of expanded primer pockets in the Starline brass. The late Ken Waters was fond of pouring the powder from time to time.

The JES 3-groove throat and grooves are at .376", and I size castings to .377". The RCBS Cowboy Die Set has two expander spuds, choose which spud based on bullet diameter.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Was looking at it again yesterday. I believe the tang on this one may be already d&t'd. If so, I might try a tang. Have a couple squirreled away. But I really prefer a receiver mounted peep for a field gun (vs bench), and this one will go to the field. And as far as loads, I have no desire to hotrod it. I have a chrono, so I can always keep sane. I just want to shoot it a lot and hunt with it.

 

[Brad]

I am using the Accurate 38 200 AG in my 94 big bore.
I grew weary of the recoil from the 375449.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Brad

1) Thanx - that's a diff angle (lighter than anything I have seen for the 38-55)! Drives a lot of questions for me.
2) GC design. I am lazy/really prefer not to have to mess with a GC - espec if it is a plinking load/bullet only
3) Recoil - I am interested to see what the recoil will be with loads in the 1500-1650 range - especially with the old skool curved buttplate! And I would like to shoot this one a lot. A lighter load would def be nice (but again, I hate GCs for fun shooting - I am Lazy!)
4) 200 grn seems light to me for deer - and I really want to hunt with this one. Don't need heavy loads. I will likely shoot it inside 70 yds at small Southern whitetails. Any experience with this bullet on deer?
5) What are you pushing this one? Plinker or hunter? Load data?

And THANX!!!!

 

[RBHarter]

If you order it PB that should take care of several requirements .

From angry 357 to mild 375 Win .

 

[CZ93X62]

In the carbine, the 250 grain Lee @ 1300 FPS is an all-day load. Bump up the speed into the 1600-1700 FPS ZIP Codes, and that 6-1/2# rifle with steel buttplate lets you know when the primers light, though it is not punishing. 50-60 of those over a couple hours isn't bad. I've sent 100+ of the slower bullets in an afternoon without discomfort.

In 375" caliber, the 1-18" twists in 38/55 will stabilize 300 grain bullets at 1100-1450 FPS. Buckshot has all sorts of bullets for his rifles, and I tried some of his samples he cast for me. The 300 grain bullets at or over 1400 FPS push back with certainty in the carbine.

 

[Brad]

I find that a 275 gr bullet in the 15-1600 FPS range in my Win 94 is not very fun, least not off the bench.
The 200 gr at 1700 FPS is far more mild.
I went with that one based on the recommendation of Tom at Accurate. It is his preferred bullet for the 375 win and he has A fair bit of experience with the cartridge.

Never used it for hunting. I agree that it seems a bit light. I do recall that the retort bullet for the 375 Win was only a 220 gr. Wouldn’t bother me to use it for deer but I would want more velocity and broadside shots. Now the 375449, at 1600 I bet it will go clean thru any deer out there.

 

[Ole_270]

I've never tried the lighter bullets in mine, just the Lee 250 and Accurate 38-250B. With 10 gr of Universal(nearly the same as Unique) I get 1220 fps and recoil is light enough my young grandsons enjoy it. More of a push than sharp recoil. Step up to 21-4198 with a dacron filler and I get 1440, still more of a push, but you'll notice it more. Killed a doe this fall with that one, Took out the far shoulder joint and kept going. With 31-3031 I get 1600+ and that little Marlin bounces some. Deer sure don't like that one.

 

[oscarflytyer]

again, you guys come thru and save me a TON of guessing and $$$! Thanx!

 

[Jäger]

Now to get set up to reload and also figure out what peep sight I will use. I am leaning towards the Providence Lyman 21 repro.

Is that a no-gunsmithing sight on a Model 94 like it is on a Model 95?

I have a friend that has his grandfather's old 1906 Winchester Model 94 saddle ring carbine in .38-55 that I'm helping him to get back into the hunting game again. His senior citizen eyesight is just as good/bad as mine.

I have that sight on my Grandpop's Model 95 in 30 U.S. Had to buy it in self defence because my senior citizen eyes could no longer see well enough to pull the front blade sight into that razor thin notch in the back sight. Funny... never had that problem 55 years ago with the rifle when my Grandpop loaned it to me to hunt with him... it was easy to see!



A couple of things you may not know about this sight if you don't have one already.

First, it doesn't have the folding small aperture for precision while developing loads - or for shooting at long distances - that I think all the original Lymans did.

Second, making windage adjustments sucks, with no precise way to measure or make lateral changes. Taking a vernier or depth micrometer to the range to help with range adjustments helps - but as soon as you start tightening the nut, more often than not the rear aperture walks one way or another. If you zero once and leave it, then it's just a one time issue.

Third, elevation adjustments also sucks - again, unless you set the sight and then leave it alone. There's probably some genius way of getting elevation settings repeatability into the locking lever and scale on the side - but I'm not the genius to figure out how to do that.

That said, YOU can get elevation repeatability in the sight. You just run around with a set of leaf feeler gauges in your kit, and a card that notes the feeler gauges needed to set the space between the bottom of the sight and the top of the receiver for the different distances. With my loads and the replacement front sight I swapped for the original (safely stored away with the original rear sight as it blocked the view from the aperture), the bottom of the sight is just barely above touching the receiver - only a few leafs to get the right distance between the two.

I'm not throwing shade on the sight; it makes an enormous difference in how well anyone with vision problems can shoot the rifle they're installed on. But there's some things about the sights that are aggravating on a sight they charge something like $175 for.

 

[oscarflytyer]

Jager - THANX!!!!! That is the sight I am (was?) looking at!

And for the $, sounds like a lot of aggravation. And I am NOT into that at my age and lack of patience! I intend to shoot this one a lot, and hunt with it. Also hope to ring steel off-hand for fun at mid distance just to piss off the plastic gun guys! As such, I want some adjustments.

My rifle is a clone. Holes are going to have to be drilled anyway. And IMO, the Lyman side receiver mount can be aggravating too. I was thinking more traditional style (this 21 clone, or the side mount). But, I may just go with the Skinner rear for the 94. I have a bunch of them. Great customer service and solid sights. Have a bunch of them and like them. And adjustment is easy.