Genuine experiences.

L Ross

Well-Known Member
Reading about that Winchester in the rifles thread brought to mind the concept of owning one gun as a tool concept. I'm not sure, but I am willing to hazard a guess, that back when my Dad, (born in 1927), was a lad and living on a dairy/subsistence farm, folks had neither the time nor the disposable income to dally around playing with adult toys. Constant, unending work, (sorta like Bret's life), meant they had little time for recreation. The genuine experiences that got hashed and rehashed between Fathers and sons, brothers and friends, were of the rare good times when they got a chance to have fun. For some, having fun was hunting and fishing.

The time Dad was sent down to bring the cows home and the crick was full of black ducks was recalled over the years because of its rarity. Dad ran all the way home to grab his Dad's Stevens 12ga. hammer pump. The one with a drop of green paint on the butt stock from when Grandpa repainted the inside of the gun cabinet. That old Stevens and a Remington single shot .22 with the "Bee hive bolt", were the farm guns for a long long time. There were no deer, none. In 1941 a local farmer found a deer track in the soft earth while pullin' weeds and it was the talk of the neighborhood.

When I think about most of the "gun writers" of that era that fascinated my Dad, they were unusually wealthy men with professions that gave them time for recreation and the income to play. Elmer Keith was an exception for much of his early life. But think about the "gun nuts" we all read about. The experimenters, the target shooters, the traveling hunters, time and money.

Along comes the post war generation, and suddenly time and money become more prevalent. We have time to fantasize about our future genuine experiences. In the interim we buy stuff. Guns we hope to hunt with some day, gear we want to use. We shoot up more ammo than our folks ever dreamt existed out side of the military. My Dad's older brother was 7 years older and a big influence on my Dad. My Uncle Elmer came home having survived the Battle of the Bulge and was the first "gun nut" of note in my young life. He, reloaded! Not only that, he melted lead down on a Coleman camp stove and poured it into moulds and made bullets! Bullets, home made bullets! He tried putting air rifle shot in the nose of some pointy .30 caliber bullet and fantasized about hunting deer with a rifle. Where I grew up, about 20 miles west of that 1941 deer track, we now saw 80 deer on Opening Day of 1966, and were strictly limited to hunting with shotguns. Rifles were exotic, long range creatures that were really really loud and caused leaves to roll 20 feet out from the muzzle at the range. Uncle Elmer got my Dad infected with the gun bug, but Dad never had Elmer's income. Elmer was a Union finish carpenter who would travel to jobs, and get a room in a rooming house in cities like, (gasp), Milwaukee! In his free time he would buy guns and reload and think about going "Out West" and have a genuine experience. My Dad always lagged behind, but by God I got him "Out West" and both antelope and Elks hunts.

Well today, we have it even better, or worse maybe. Sue and I were just talking the other day about all the stuff I have. She said, and I'll paraphrase, Have you noticed when you can't actually go fishing or do whatever you are currently hot to do, you go buy stuff related to that current desire?

Boy oh boy, did that hit the nail between the eyes. How much of the stuff I have accrued is the detritus of fantasies I hold about future genuine experiences. Compared to my Grandpa, I am Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, Franklin Mann, H.M.Pope, Bill Dance, Louie Spray, hell even Bat Masterson. I have run around as an adult from one adventure to another and so have a lot of you. We chase genuine experiences with the fervor of a drug addict seeking the next hit.

Would we be satisfied having only a twenny two, a 12 ga. pump, and maybe a deer rifle? Hell no, and we shouldn't be. Do we need to have one ammo that's compatible with our rifle and God forbid, a pistol? Hell no! Let's relish our freedom and lives of excess. He who dies with the most toys wins! You may now return to your regularly scheduled station and wonder why you wasted 3 minutes reading my drivel.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Looking at the big picture, I think individual experience has a lot to do with perspective.

Not everyone was struggling in the past to survive but if you were one of the people struggling, you probably didn’t know that.

Smaller population and a slower economy meant land was far less expensive. Even if you were not prosperous, it was easier to be land rich and money poor.

As the economy expanded and the population increased, the equation changed a little. More people had more disposable income, but the costs increased as well.

My grandfather (long dead) grew up on a farm in Manitoba. He spoke of harsh conditions and hard work but clearly they were not destitute. He was well educated despite their rural location. They had equipment and land. I think perspective is shaped by what you know.

We do have a lot of “Stuff” and sometimes I think we lose sight of how good times are now when compared to the past but it’s all relative. Talk to anyone that was alive before the Polio vaccine and they will tell you about real fear of illness. Talk to people that were happy to have a phone that was on a party line and suddenly that occasional lack of cell phone service seems trivial. We have a lot of "First World Problems".

Perspective is important and often lost.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I was thinking about this very thing yesterday, great minds and all that! I was trying to think of which guns I'd keep if it came down to only having 2 or 3. I could do it, but I grew up surrounded by lots of guns, so it's nothing I HOPE to ever do.

We live in a comparatively "cushy" era. I sit here worrying about replacing or repairing a tractor that 30 years ago was a real chore to find parts for. Now I order from England fairly regularly. I know 2 guys virtually that order stuff from Lithuania! And moulds! We live in The Golden Age of Casting!

It ain't a bad time to live at all in many respects.
 
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Ian

Notorious member
I am not an anachronism. To be born before modern anesthesia, vaccines, and antibiotics made ordinary life high-risk.

Unlike most of you, I grew up without electricity or hot running water, and I'm only middle aged. The first electric light I had to read by was in my college dormitory room. My father had a small shop with sharp hand tools and hand-powered things like bench grinders, drills, scroll saw, and so forth. We ran a good sized garden, some small livestock, and Mom canned the surplus. We had propane, chain saws, and a Troy-Bilt rear-tine tiller. Lots of books and kerosene lamps, reloading by lamplight after school work was done, lots of time in the woods with an axe or rifle. Dad didn't hunt much then but did when he was younger, he had a revolver, .22 rifle, Savage 30-30, and a 16-gauge. My parents are both educated and I was home-schooled until high school, by which time I had the equivalent of an undergraduate degree in the liberal arts. High school and college completed my science education. Growing up at home with interesting parents and not wasting time with busywork allowed me to become very proficient with my hands and mind solving problems and being creative, an advantage few have; also the public education system didn't get a chance to kill my thirst for knowledge at a young age. We were poor but but what we had was of good quality and the need to maintain and care for our stuff was obvious and unspoken. My dad loved to fish and took me with him many times from about four years old. Good memories, and every day of my childhood was a genuine experience in one way or another.

Today I live in a house I built 100% by myself on that same property, having returned from a decade or so of adventures. I have disposable income and have inherited several households of tools and equipment in addition to what I've been able to buy for myself. People give me stuff because I take care of it and value it, for example I still use my great-great grandmother's hand-made quilts and still have the broom and nail clipper set my mother bought for me when I left home. I have FAR more stuff than I need, but the mire stuff, the more opportunity for experiences. It is a good time to be alive and I make the most of it with no guilt about the poverty of previous generations, though the experience of growing up poor never really leaves you and I tend to hoard and stockpile things, information, and MEMORIES like they won't be available tomorrow....who knows? Maybe they won't be, you never know.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Great thread already!

Glad someone spun this off the other thread, @L Ross , and I am seeing profoundly similar experiences to my own in my "formative years."

I have more reading to do, but wanted to share how great a thread this is early on.

TWO things that stand out are that 1) the one-gun concept (or even just a few) is not an impossibility, and 2) that the recognition of the former point comes easier to someone of a particular set of circumstances and life-experience growing up. "Gone are the days," I think, and if we were thrown back into a time where being "poor" is a matter of hindsight and from a different perspective than that of the persons being profiled as "poor," there'd be a world of hurt. MAYBE others could read this and learn something, but that audience probably doesn't come here.

If nothing else, it is gratifying to have these thoughts are not entirely dead concepts quite yet.

I did a quick review of my own chosen personal battery again last night, and there is yet some "fluff" even as I have drastically reduced it over the past ten years. I had the idea over forty years ago, but it kept being pushed out, mostly by the influence of my (step) father, who influenced me greatly on this. He had a love for guns, and was an anomaly thrust into the family psyche of how much you needed of what. It was a passion which brought us together - the only thing that did, really, so I participated to sustain that one element of enjoyment in our relationship.

It gave us something in common. Now, I am back on track with my limited battery concept, many years (decades) later. I'm anxious over moving the last few items, to include a 900# gun safe the size of a refrigerator, and SEE my small "collection" (in a smaller safe). At that point, I may be able to finally decide that it could be even smaller. We'll see. I can currently count the "keepers" on less than two hands, and envision being down to counting on ONE hand and enjoying the diversion that much more, as I have gotten more and more out of this "hobby" as I have been able to FOCUS more and more on what I have left.
 

Ian

Notorious member
Lao Tsu wrote "amass a wealth of gold and jewels and no one can protect it". The context was a long poem describing the troubles that the then-modern, materialist society brought to the individual and how the taoist minimalist concept and spiritual focus brought peace, happiness, and enlightenment as opposed to anxiety and want.

Goethe wrote basically the same thing, "To have but a few posessions, to love these, and to cherish these, makes the artist, the poet, and the true human being".

I think with age and experience we begin to shift from materialism to spiritualism, or whatever you want to call it. It takes a while of living to really get your priorities sorted.
 

Rockydoc

Well-Known Member
Reading about that Winchester in the rifles thread brought to mind the concept of owning one gun as a tool concept. I'm not sure, but I am willing to hazard a guess, that back when my Dad, (born in 1927), was a lad and living on a dairy/subsistence farm, folks had neither the time nor the disposable income to dally around playing with adult toys. Constant, unending work, (sorta like Bret's life), meant they had little time for recreation. The genuine experiences that got hashed and rehashed between Fathers and sons, brothers and friends, were of the rare good times when they got a chance to have fun. For some, having fun was hunting and fishing.

The time Dad was sent down to bring the cows home and the crick was full of black ducks was recalled over the years because of its rarity. Dad ran all the way home to grab his Dad's Stevens 12ga. hammer pump. The one with a drop of green paint on the butt stock from when Grandpa repainted the inside of the gun cabinet. That old Stevens and a Remington single shot .22 with the "Bee hive bolt", were the farm guns for a long long time. There were no deer, none. In 1941 a local farmer found a deer track in the soft earth while pullin' weeds and it was the talk of the neighborhood.

When I think about most of the "gun writers" of that era that fascinated my Dad, they were unusually wealthy men with professions that gave them time for recreation and the income to play. Elmer Keith was an exception for much of his early life. But think about the "gun nuts" we all read about. The experimenters, the target shooters, the traveling hunters, time and money.

Along comes the post war generation, and suddenly time and money become more prevalent. We have time to fantasize about our future genuine experiences. In the interim we buy stuff. Guns we hope to hunt with some day, gear we want to use. We shoot up more ammo than our folks ever dreamt existed out side of the military. My Dad's older brother was 7 years older and a big influence on my Dad. My Uncle Elmer came home having survived the Battle of the Bulge and was the first "gun nut" of note in my young life. He, reloaded! Not only that, he melted lead down on a Coleman camp stove and poured it into moulds and made bullets! Bullets, home made bullets! He tried putting air rifle shot in the nose of some pointy .30 caliber bullet and fantasized about hunting deer with a rifle. Where I grew up, about 20 miles west of that 1941 deer track, we now saw 80 deer on Opening Day of 1966, and were strictly limited to hunting with shotguns. Rifles were exotic, long range creatures that were really really loud and caused leaves to roll 20 feet out from the muzzle at the range. Uncle Elmer got my Dad infected with the gun bug, but Dad never had Elmer's income. Elmer was a Union finish carpenter who would travel to jobs, and get a room in a rooming house in cities like, (gasp), Milwaukee! In his free time he would buy guns and reload and think about going "Out West" and have a genuine experience. My Dad always lagged behind, but by God I got him "Out West" and both antelope and Elks hunts.

Well today, we have it even better, or worse maybe. Sue and I were just talking the other day about all the stuff I have. She said, and I'll paraphrase, Have you noticed when you can't actually go fishing or do whatever you are currently hot to do, you go buy stuff related to that current desire?

Boy oh boy, did that hit the nail between the eyes. How much of the stuff I have accrued is the detritus of fantasies I hold about future genuine experiences. Compared to my Grandpa, I am Jack O'Connor, Elmer Keith, Franklin Mann, H.M.Pope, Bill Dance, Louie Spray, hell even Bat Masterson. I have run around as an adult from one adventure to another and so have a lot of you. We chase genuine experiences with the fervor of a drug addict seeking the next hit.

Would we be satisfied having only a twenny two, a 12 ga. pump, and maybe a deer rifle? Hell no, and we shouldn't be. Do we need to have one ammo that's compatible with our rifle and God forbid, a pistol? Hell no! Let's relish our freedom and lives of excess. He who dies with the most toys wins! You may now return to your regularly scheduled station and wonder why you wasted 3 minutes reading my drivel.
I clicked the “Like” button, but actually, I loved that post.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
If we have enough disposable income to have hobbies, $ get spent on those hobbies. As we age and can no longer participate in said hobbies, we 'think' about disposing of excess hobby 'stuff'.

Now, wait a minute! That's not ME,..... YET.:oops:

Astute observation and defensible hypothesis none the less. I CAN see that and HAVE seen that. I like the succinct manner in which you state it - a skill I still struggle with.


For the record, I'm in Goethe's/ @Ian 's camp, philosophically and physically.

I love the Lao Tsu quote, which is new to me, and it opens yet another refinement of the "one-gun" (or "few") concept as well - in fact, for ANY gear, clothing, whatever, in that the "nicer" stuff you have, the more someone else will want it and the more likely someone would be to try to relieve you of it.

Thanks, Ian, now I have to look Lao Tsu up.:rolleyes: I have to stop there because I feel a rant bubbling up about people not looking stuff up anymore, even as they carry the window to the world (past, present and future) in their pocket 24/7.
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I dropped a limb today that didn't go where it was supposed to . I have a lot of gear like most of us . Today very well could have been a lot more difficult and ended far worse .......
 

RBHarter

West Central AR
I have a ton of real experiences shared with occasionally 4 generations , often 3 from Baja to Calgary AB . Grand trips and buddies hanging out .
 

L Ross

Well-Known Member
As I was fighting my way through prairie grasses higher than my head in 90 degree heat spraying thistles with Glyphosate, it dawned on me that of all the genuine experiences I have had, there are only a handful that will out live me. A dear friend is dying of cancer and he recently received a call from a man he had befriended as a youth and this young man called to express his regrets that my friend is ill. Furthermore the younger man said that my friend was more of a Father to him than his own Dad.

I have several young men that fell under my influence over the years, and those are all good memories. Then I started parsing out other situations my wife and I have shared and thinking about how we are going to maintain this beautiful prairie after we are gone. We need to start making plans for its preservation.

30 years ago we bought a very pristine piece of property in Northern WI with 4,800 feet of frontage on the South Fork of the Flambeau River. When we sold it we were careful to put a highly restrictive deed restriction on the property to prevent its development. Also we sold the State a small camp site for canoeists. Our consciences are clear. We used the proceeds from that sale to purchase our current home and land. Now the prairie, full of wild flowers, butterflies, bees and wildlife, is another improvement that we have control of. In four years the former soy bean and corn field that was generating 40 dollars an acre for some highly erodible, none too productive land, is a flourishing tall grass prairie. There is a program administered by the Farm Services Administration for a Pollinator Friendly, Monarch Safe prairie CRP program if any of you are interested.

As we near the end of our lives we will have the satisfaction of knowing these properties will endure.
 

JonB

Halcyon member
I was thinking about this very thing yesterday, great minds and all that! I was trying to think of which guns I'd keep if it came down to only having 2 or 3. I could do it, but I grew up surrounded by lots of guns, so it's nothing I HOPE to ever do.

We live in a comparatively "cushy" era. I sit here worrying about replacing or repairing a tractor that 30 years ago was a real chore to find parts for. Now I order from England fairly regularly. I know 2 guys virtually that order stuff from Lithuania! And moulds! We live in The Golden Age of Casting!

It ain't a bad time to live at all in many respects.
In 2014, I was struggling with a gun collection that was too large (in my mind). I always told myself I was a shooter and not a gun collector, but a collector I have become. I planned, and had a gun auction (59 guns and lots of ammo, on April 2nd 2015) to thin the collection.

When I started the planning, I originally thought I would reduce the collection to 5 and figured it'd be easy to do. WRONG! I did get that number down to 20, but a last minute change made that 21. After the auction, I told myself I wouldn't be buying any more, no matter what. In the next year, I bought 5 ...and one of those was a gun I regretted selling at the Auction, and sought out the buyer and paid a premium to get it back. Since then, I've bought another 6 or 7.

...DANG, I just don't know how a fella in this casting hobby can get down to 2 or 3, as Bret states.
 
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