Gun Powder

[VZerone]

That describes pretty well how the manufacturers determine the burn rate of a powder and it's uses for them. Yes many things do change the burn and I'm not going to list them here.

That micrometer "instrument" is not playing solo, it's being played by a musician, the shooter/reloader. Like many musicians it can be played out of tune. Talking that there is a finesse to it's proper use that in this case a very minute calculation can really ruin your song!

 

[VZerone]

Funny you mention BE. There's a reason I wrote that it behaves more like Universal than Unique behaves like Universal, even though Unique and Universal are typically adjacent in the speed charts. BE is easy to ignite like the faster powders (Red Dot, Clays, etc.) but it has a very long burn curve. It develops pressure quickly but that pressure doesn't fall off immediately like many other powders. Unique has the same characteristics of a relatively long push compared to anything in its burn speed class. Universal is easier to light than Unique and more consistent at BE pressures, but has a peakier burn curve, so in a way Universal and BE are quite similar as far as delivering energy to the bullet within a given pressure window.

Ian it's very apparent in shooting a semi-auto pistol, for an example, that the push, pressure duration are totally different then Unique. In a semi-auto Bullseye acts like piston rod hit on an actuating rod to a bolt carrier, such as in a SKS rifle, for an example, which is a very shortt quick jab. Bullseye does that to the slide on a semi-auto pistol.

Use a lot of Universal and about all I can say good about it is that it burns cleaner then Unique. Universal's grain to velocity reading does come pretty close to that of Unique. Universal, in my experience, doesn't give the same accuracy as Unique would and the 45 Colt comes to mind here. Hodgdon even told Joe over the phone that they noticed that about the 45 Colt and Universal and it puzzles them.

 

[Rally]

Ian,
Not sure I'm following your line of thought, or comparisons, by judging a powder when you move it from one cartridge/ hull to another. A fair comparison in my mind, would be an identical charge of BE or TG etc., with the same bullet weight, seating depth, case, and crimp. Then you would be comparing the pressure developed in a known space, for the same amount/ weight of any given powder. When I first started loading, I used to looked through the powder manufactures load listings, for the calibers I was loading. The powders that showed the most flexibility is what I bought/ tried, because I loaded a lot of different calibers/ gauges. Some proved better than the others over the years, in their flexibility throughout the spectrum, an admirable trait in my mind. BE was one that really worked well in the pistols, and BD in the shotguns, because I load more field loads than trap/skeet/ sporting clays. I've loaded a lot of Unique, more Universal lately, and a lot of Herco , mainly in medium field loads(lots of 16 gauge). Didn't have much luck with the low end of those powders, because I shoot mainly Browning A5's, and tended to load more of the BD for more reliable ejection, with faster 1 and 1 1/4 oz recipes,for pheasant. Maybe my experiences have pointed me to where I'm at now with my powder choices. Don't mind my rambling, I'm thinking about pheasant hunting and pistol shooting at the same time.

 

[Ian]

I try to do the same in thinking of a powder's overall characteristics within the full range of its suitable applications, then rank by those characteristics. That means a burn rate chart organized by powder properties, not by direct comparison to others only within a limited, narrow sampling of possible uses.

My logic is that to rank powders according to burn rate, one should study the behavior of each in various systems and see how it averages out. This will indicate how the powder reacts when compressed, when it has a lot of space, when it is bottle-necked, when straight, under light and heavy bullets. A picture of gas volume generated, pressure as it relates to static expansion space and cartridge expansion ratio, and digressive rate will emerge. THEN the powder can be ranked firmly and generally. I think of powders as fuels with a finite amount of gas volume to deliver, a retardant that controls the ignition but that varies with pressure rise rate (how much it is confined), and a decay rate after peaking out. Some within the same burn spectrum (like Unique and Universal) are essentially the same energy package, but the rates of rise and decay, no matter what they're put in, are drastically different. Same thing with Titegroup and Bullseye.

 

[fiver]

unique works everywhere, but it only works really well here and there.
other powders are like that, and they fit some situations much better than others.

 

[KHornet]

Well said fiver! It is what it is!

Paul

 

[Rally]

Ian,
I'm referring back to your list of powders, and where you excluded the rifle powders a little later. Looking at the list, from my experience, it seemed you had the shotguns and pistols pretty well covered, from low medium to heavy. I was thinking the BE would cover the fast end of the list, to complete my list of powders. That's why I asked about the BE or 231. Like Fivers last post about Unique, it has been real limited where I use it. I always seem to end up loading BE, Herco, or BD to get where I want to be. I've not gotten into them much more than find what the gun likes, and load a bunch. All you folks on here keep presenting me with more options to consider. The possibilities are endless! Thanks much.

 

[Ian]

That list was a narrow slice of the only ones that consistently fall into that order for me.

 

[Rally]

Don't list any more, Please. I've got a four day trip to Cn. to do a presentation. My mind is already on overload and it cost a dollar a minute to use my phone up there. LOL

 

[Pistolero]

Use the burning charts to select a powder to try, then the load books to see where to start with
YOUR cartridge and your bullet wt. And then try several different ones, unless you are just looking
for a bang and hole in paper. Unless you are looking for best accuracy, or highest velocity, or
some specific thing, often a Golden Oldie like BE or Unique can cover a huge amount of loading
and "get the job done". Perhaps not the highest possible velocity, or the absolute best accuracy,
or something....but will work.

Once you are past that, it takes a whole lot more testing, because the powders really do have
their own personalities, and react differently when pushed into different roles.

Bill

 

[fiver]

god yes they do.

I remember answering a question about only being able to have 1 single powder.
my answer is Green-dot.
what?.. why? of course followed, and my answer was because I would be able to get it since everyone else would be buying Unique.
but the real answer is because it will do everything that unique will do only on a 90% scale.

 

[freebullet]

Haha, mine would be titegroup. It's position insensitivity & accuracy across the board in the 800-1050fps range hasn't been beat by anything I've tried yet.