Had an idea.....

[USSR]

Am a big fan of the .45 Colt, and have several of them. I bought some of the .45 Cowboy Special brass that Starline sells and intend to work up some light weight, fairly mild loads using the fast powders I use for trap shooting. While I have an H&G #68 clone mold, it just don't look right for a revolver load, what with not having a driving band out in front of the case. So, I got to thinking (always a dangerous thing for me), why not take my Lyman 452460 bullet which has 2 lube grooves, and use the front one as a crimp groove? Granted, the single lube groove is small and doesn't hold a lot of lube, but at the low velocities I am looking at it should work. Added bonus, the bullet will be seated out a little bit closer to the throat. What say ye?

Don

 

[CZ93X62]

A couple observations about Lyman #452460. My mould example is a 4-banger that casts at .453" in 92/6/2.

1) Lube in one/lower of the two grooves is plenty using Alox/BW 50/50, whether in 45 ACP--45 Auto Rim--or 45 Colt applications. The slugs for the 45 Colt/Bishawk are sized/lubed in a .454 H&I die; throats are .453". The #452460 comes from the time of Lyman Ideal Greasy Kid Stuff lube; that might explain the two-lube-groove rationale.

2) In the 45 ACP I load the #452460 to Lyman's recommended OAL and set a light taper crimp. In 45 AR and 45 Colt I seat the bullet's front drive band even with the case mouth edge and set a light roll crimp. I haven't tried using the front lube groove as a crimping groove; the 45 Colt is kinda cavernous, and I'm not fond of low-density powder levels in huge cases. I use the bullet shank seated deeper to take up air space. I also haven't tried the 45 Cowboy Special brass, either.

 

[Matt]

I think you’re on a track that’s just fine. I’ve used the 452460 quite a bit in Auto Rim cases for my 1917 Smith and Wesson and a Webley with a shaved cylinder. I crimp in the top groove and use small charges of Bullseye and Red Dot to get these revolvers to shoot to the point of aim at 25 yards.
I either just fill the bottom groove with lube or more often just tumble lube. Large powder space doesn’t concern me with Bullseye and Red Dot. They’re easy to ignite and don’t seem to be position sensitive. Most of my .30/06 is loaded with these two powders and I get 1 to 2.5 moa out to 200 yards feeding from a bolt action magazine. I will agree that 231 and HP38 work better with smaller combustion chambers as do the the WW trap powders I ’ve done a little experimentation with.
I’ve not reached a conclusion on this because I’ve not used them much because I have so much Bullseye and Red Dot on hand.

 

[USSR]

Matt,

Glad to hear the 452460 loaded as I described works for you with the .45 AR case. The .45 Cowboy Special is the same size internally. It is also my intention to use small charges of Bullseye and Red Dot.

Don

 

[RicinYakima]

One of my favorite 45 AR loads is 4.0 grains of Bullseye crimped in the front lube groove. It is very light, less than 10,000 CUP in the old books.

 

[USSR]

Thanks for that load data, RicinYakima. I was thinking that and 4.2gr of Red Dot might be a good place to start.

Don

 

[fiver]

I use a different lyman swc in the 45 colt [452430 airc] from time to time.
when I do I just taper crimp them in place.
they do look kind of funny in that long rimmed case but they shoot pretty well in the lever rifles, and I usually have a bucket full of them kicking around.

 

[Matt]

Don.

Glad I could help.

 

[StrawHat]

If you want the bullet closer to the throat but do not want to use the long Colt case, there is always the 45 S&W case to try. I have a bunch of them, somewhere, from when I was shooting them with blackpowder and a 260 grain cast bullet.

Kevin

 

[USSR]

Kevin,

Yes, that's true, but I've got 250 of the Starline .45 Cowboy Special brass. Also I like the fact that due to it's size, this brass shares load data with .45 ACP and .45 AR, of which there is a lot more load data available.

Don

 

[fiver]

I'd see what the rifle had to say about it, before I got too worked about the whole thing.

 

[USSR]

Actually, the load will be used in 2 revolvers: a 4" S&W 25-5 and a Pietta 4 3/4" 1873.

Don

 

[fiver]

nuthin to lose there.
look for a little lead at the cylinder throat to chamber junction blah blah 38 special. yada yada.
easy enough to clean up if it happens.

 

[StrawHat]

Kevin,

Yes, that's true, but I've got 250 of the Starline .45 Cowboy Special brass. Also I like the fact that due to it's size, this brass shares load data with .45 ACP and .45 AR, of which there is a lot more load data available.

Don

I understand, just giving you options. Haven’t tried the Cowboy Special yet. I wanted to rework a lever action to handle it. Time/money... you may or may not get my meaning. Now, mostly 45 ACP/AR from my S&Ws. Still have two “Colts” (Italian SAA) chambered for the ACP. They haven’t seen holster time in a long while.

Kevin