How Good is Good Enough?

[TXTad]

Even though I've been casting for a long time on the calendar, I actually haven't done all that much of it. I'm still learning how to get good results from my various molds, aluminum, brass, and iron. So far I've only ever cast with wheelweights. I think I get pretty good results, though I still have room for improvement.

One thing I keep forgetting to ask here, and this is me finally remembering to do so, is how critical is it for the tops of the lube grooves to be perfect? Some times I reject half of my bullets because one edge is just a little bit rounded. The bases are good, and there are no wrinkles, but sometimes I just can't get everything to come together perfectly and there is a slight but noticeable roundness, usually only on the front band, and usually only on one side of the mold. I simply reject any like this but always wonder if I'm being a bit too picky.

I'm not talking about big problems like bad bases, wrinkles, or hardly formed grooves, just a very slight problem on a small portion.

 

[Rick]

How good is good enough? Only you can answer that. It all depends on the type of shooting you do and the results you are willing to accept. What could have one person grinning ear to ear could well have the next person running back to the drawing board to try and figure out what went wrong.

Most of my casting/shooting was long range handgun and I was anal about everything.

Possible that a half rounded driving band is from a hot spot in the mold. 700 degree pot temp and a consistent casting rythm to keep the mold at a constant Goldie Locks temp could solve the problem.

Wheel weights +2% Sn is 100% of my casting.

 

[JonB]

SNIP>>>
but sometimes I just can't get everything to come together perfectly and there is a slight but noticeable roundness, usually only on the front band, and usually only on one side of the mold. I simply reject any like this but always wonder if I'm being a bit too picky.

OK, I have issues like this with long skinny bullets. First, Let me mention that poor fillout like this can be caused by too small of a sprue puddle being poured causing cold sprue plate. When this is just one side, it can be the stream of molten alloy going into the mold, possibly causing hot spots and/or cold spots. In a recent discussion, we talked about this. It was one of Ben's Mold threads. A question was asked in post #15 and the discussion continued. I did some speculating in post #26

Lyman 314299

I had an opportunity to buy an older Lyman 314299. The mould arrived today. I got lucky. My clip on WW's cast a bullet that is .3025" on the nose and .313" on the drive bands. ( I have nose sizing dies that can size .302, .301, or .300" ) For me and my needs, all these numbers are just about...

www.artfulbullet.com

 

[Missionary]

Rick wrote it real good.
When you are shooting at a 200 meter 50 pound steel ram ya need all the little considerations 110%. Worse is when you need to hit the 1/3 size critter at the same 200 meters. All the little edges, voids, and corners must be consistent. There just is no room for a warble.
Now for popping soda cans at 25 yards with the same very accurate handgun with an 85% slug is going to knock it all over.
Any more with the cost of reloading components I tend to get very critical with my cast slugs.

 

[RBHarter]

I didn't think I was all that fussy about what I called "good nuff" . Then I started reading about the gymnastics the guys that call themselves target shooters . Then I measured stuff . Then I realized that I was applying 2600 fps MV 222 62 gr culling to everything I put into a bottleneck case . Quantified because 35/38/9mm pistol and carbine are one caliber and not really subject to such slash and burn . From there up , well honestly I don't expect less than a 5"-6" cone of fire or less than 4" from the 1895G at 100 or 92s past 50-60 yd . That might change with the heavy barrel on the Savage built up to the 2.25" 451-60 straight or whatever we decide to call the 45 Raptor mag thing .

 

[PGPKY2014]

I believe that each of us have to be able to answer that question for ourselves. What may be "good enough " for me may not be for anyone else.

 

[Jeff H]

I agree with anyone who agreed with @Rick , and and anyone who added, but did not subtract from it.

Another aspect of this is the FACT that mos of us probably do things which really don't make much (if any) difference, especially if we exclude the bonafide target-shooting guys. I'm pretty particular about my brass - I baby it, I slather it with care, trim a batch to the exact same length, deburr, scrub necks with steel wool as I remove a fried case from the chamber, even deburr flash-holes.

For the type and amount of shooting I do, and for no better than I shoot these days, I bet most of the stuff I do makes a wit of difference, especially at fifty yards. I rarely shoot a "one-ragged-hole" group at fifty to 75 yards (I moved my target stand out), but cringe if I go over an inch. If I shoot one-inch groups at fifty (talking rifle here), THEN I start picking things apart. If I can get below an inch, I'm not sad, but I strive for one half that.

99% of the struggle to get that is ME, not my bullets and not my loads. DO I NEED that kind of accuracy for what I do with my guns, besides shoot at targets? No. I think it's really more a matter of pride and something to work toward for the sake of not getting too complacent.

 

[beagle]

Be ruthless in culling defects. Don't cost much to recast. Using defect bullets, you're only cheating yourself. There are enough internal deffects on cast bullets that are not detected as it is.
About 10 years ago, my shooting partned was experimenting with impact coating cast with moly. The process involve tumbling cast bullets as perect as you could get them in jeweler's tumbling media which is scraps of molten steel metal. The moly goes in this and is tumbled for a while. Now, taking 100 cast bullets with no defects or blemishes visible and tumbling might result in 20-25 good bullets. The remainder showed voids not detectable. I mean all over, not just base voids. Ogive, driving bands, bases and lube grooves.
Even if you cull ruthlessly, you're gonna have visible deffects.
It up to you to set the standard for yourseld./beagle

 

[Ian]

Casting a good bullet isn't about how well you cull, but about how well you cast. If you're culling more than 5% it's time to figure out the problem and fix it.

I usually cull from the mould, looking over the last pour while the sprue cools and flicking the good ones into a pile. If the pour didn't go right for some reason I automatically shuck the bullets into the cull bin. Lead can be recast indefinitely. If I start finding rounded bands in one spot or a little void in the base lube groove, I change the way I'm doing things. If you're finding a lot of culls there are a lot more that you are not finding, and shooting.

How good is good enough? Only you can decide that.

 

[fiver]

i got pretty ruthlessly culled once for making all of my gas check bases round on the edges.
that isn't easy to do,, or maintain.
thing is once i talked most of the ones i sent samples to into checking and shooting them they seemed pretty satisfied with the results.

 

[Brad]

To me it depends.
I am far more ruthless when casting bullets to be fired at higher velocity or longer ranges in a rifle. For mass production handgun ammo that will be fired at 25 yards tops I am a little less particular.
Like Ian I am always looking at what just dropped from the mould and adjusting my pouring as needed.
I did find my cull rate dropped when I went to using a large ladle. Like a ton.

 

[Cadillac Jeff]

I do like Ian , kinda cull as I go....
Depending on the mold ,I start with a cull pile, pour till I run low , most times a 20lb pot is all I do at a time.

Life is to short to shoot ugly bullets

 

[JustJim]

With the increases in component prices/lack of availability of components, my standards have risen considerably. I recently cast about 1,400 bullets for my .44 in a 2 cavity mould. After inspection and culling, I had around 1,100. . . so I decided to weigh them. The keepers were in a range of .3 grains, but if I added in the "rejects" (which were "good enough" when my costs were lower) it expanded the range by .2 grains on the lower end.

When my costs expanded to include "time and travel expenses" to find components, and "developmental costs" working up a new load after another forced powder change, I started to get real picky.

 

[waco]

All of my handgun shooting is offhand. 7 yardsto a 100 yards. Life is too short to weigh and sort handgun bullets. If it passes visual inspection, it gets loaded.
Rifle is a different animal.

 

[Tomme boy]

I have a MP mold 358-200 rcbs for my 350 legend that will give you a depression in the middle drive band if you tip the mold to the left. It does it on the 3rd cavity back on the 4 cavity hp mold. Everything looks the exact same cavity to cavity. I can tip it to the right or hold it level and it does not do it. But anything to the left it does it. It has to be air getting trapped is my guess.

I don't sort enough. My pistol stuff. As long as it does not have a huge defect I shoot it. My rifle I sort for any defects. I don't get many defects though. About the only ones are the HP bullets were opened too soon and the HP is messed up or cracked. But that is usually only with the hex HP pins. The regular hp pins I don't get many. I pour huge puddles on my sprue plate. Maybe that is one reason I don't get very many rejects.

And I keep an eye on how the lead is flowing out of the pot. I clean the spout with a torch cleaning tip any time I notice the lead is slowing down. And I spin the rod on the Lee pot to hopefully get whatever is there out. After about 5 casting sessions, I empty my pot and I pull the rod to clean it. I et everything off of it before I put it back in.

A couple of years ago I took the rod and coated the tip with valve lapping compound and spun it to make a good seat. I did this 3 times then cleaned the pot and tip. My pot rarely leaks like most Lee pots after doing this. And the flow seamed to improve after. I guess it got rid of any restrictions by lapping it in. I have done it one time again to remove something that was like cement in the seat. It started to leak and I had to lap it in again to get rid of whatever was in there. It has not come back after that.

This has helped me to get bullets that are more consistent from one to the other as the flow is the same if the pot is full or half.

 

[Elpatoloco]

I'm a bit critical with my sorting. I do so on an electronic scale. It doesnt take long to do a bunch. You can pick out the little defects pretty darn quick just by the weight of the slug.

I dont care If I am firing from 3 yards to 100 yards. If the slug doesnt go where I send it, its the nut behind the trigger, not anything to do with my ammo.

I've casted a long time according to the calendar as well. I have some molds that it doesnt seem to be able to make cull slugs If I tried others have been a fight since the day I got them. I was super stand offish to use anything but Iron for a LONG time. Stupidity on my part as I have grown to prefer anything but Iron molds.

 

[popper]

Visual sort for pistol cast. Visual sort for rifle cast, most don't have grooves so just check the base. Did an exhausting weighing thing yrs ago, not worth the time - to find bad ones. Before I get a lot of grief - calculate the surface area of your bullet (or just the perimeter of the bullet drawing), make that one thou thick and calculate the weight of that 'shell'. Interesting result.
308 vs 309 rifle bullet, used .7 vs actual length for ogive. Make it a one thou cylinder. 0.0003 cu " difference. 0.97gr difference. You will never find rounded base or grooves by weight! Little temp diff of mold or hold the handles tighter - good bullet culled by weight.

 

[STIHL]

I have this issue with Lee 2 cavity’s and small block ideal/Lyman single cavity’s. What I have came to the conclusion is it is due to casting outside and the wind blowing or the way I run my casting setup and somehow one side of the mold gets cold. Nothing makes me more angry when I go to culling and find almost all my work was for naught due to driving bands not filling out. For pistol bullets shot at 10-50 yards. I’m not as picky if they are meh. Tumble lube boolits are my worst for fill out. I have to keep them hot and the pot temp up and they end up frosting a little to get good fill out, I worry more about bases and front bands than I do those lube grooves, so.

If I am testing accuracy. I select only the best sharp and consistent driving bands and minimal test out at the base.

Couple weeks back I was using a new to me Lyman 358421 4 cavity and it took about 25 pours to get that thing up to temp After sitting on the pot for an hour. It was cold outside. When I finally got that thing to temp it was one pour was rounded the next it was golden. What I have found is it’s all about temperature and rhythm. When you finally figure out the things that are specific to your pot, your casting rhythm, etc you have to adjust accordingly. I am in the same boat as you on casting. I haven’t been doing it but about 7 years off and on. Mostly cast in the winter too. I actually just moved by pot into a shed behind the house to cut the wind out off the equation and hopefully improve wit those 2 cavity lees.

 

[Bret4207]

I'm in the "cull ruthlessly" group. The biggies for me are the base, the "body" if it has one vs a Loverin type, and run out. I am far more ruthless culling my little 25's and 6.5's than a 400 gr 45 cal. It makes no sense to be that way, but there's a lot of stuff I do that makes no sense! I've shot a lot of "culls" that shot great, except for those 3 or 4 out of 20 that took a left turn at Albuquerque! Out of a belly gun at 3 yards, it's not gonna matter. Head shooting a Squirrel at 60 yard? Oh yeah, then it matters!

 

[dale2242]

All my cast bullets have to be perfect visually.
I check them under a bench mounted magnifying light.
I don`t weigh my handgun bullets.
I do weigh my rifle bullets on my electronic scales.
How much that I allow them to vary depends on heavy the bullets are.
By that I mean, 22 calibers to have a much closer tolerance than 45 caliber.