Hurricane Harvey
- Thread starter gman
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oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Son/DIL in SW Houston. Had to evac (vol) yesterday. But they were on the edge of the mandatory evac area from the Brazos R flooding. Place is a mess.
KHornet
Well-Known Member
I will take living in Tornado Alley, over being flooded any day.
I like my water to drink, take a shower in, and to shoot a duck
over once in awhile. Can swim, but don't like to. To have to
swim when you exit the front door would be horrific. Prayers
to those in the Huston area.
Paul
I like my water to drink, take a shower in, and to shoot a duck
over once in awhile. Can swim, but don't like to. To have to
swim when you exit the front door would be horrific. Prayers
to those in the Huston area.
Paul
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
My oldest son was living in Houston a couple years back. At that time they had terrific flooding, not like this, but it was bad. Seems these "once in 500 years" storms happen more like every couple decades and the "storm of the century" happens every other year! Maybe we're living so much "in the moment" that we can't look at history.
Chris
Well-Known Member
An interesting description of the problems Houston faces. Unfortunately, as anticipated, the recriminations have already started. Still an interesting read.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-harvey-engineering-20170828-story.html
A quote from the article regarding the matter of rainfall in Houston:
"The city’s flood system is supposed to protect the public from a 100-year storm, but Bea calls that “a 100-year lie” because it is based on a rainfall total of 13 inches in 24 hours.
“That has happened more than eight times in the last 27 years,” Bea said. “It is wrong on two counts. It isn’t accurate about the past risk and it doesn’t reflect what will happen in the next 100 years.”
The only thing different with this storm was a high pressure area north east and a second high pressure north west of the storm's landfall. These high pressure areas kept the storm from moving out of the Houston area to the north east as most do so it just kept raining in the same place. I wonder what algore will have to say about it, he's sure to inform us of the problem and cause.
Before moving to Arkansas I lived in Houston 61 years. Planners and the powers in charge never used the correct growth rate factors for the actual growth the area has experienced. Traffic and flooding are the two most prominent examples. Asphalt and concrete have near zero perm ratings. The situation will only get worse. I'm glad I'm no longer there!
Chris
Well-Known Member
Interesting historical mention from 1935:
http://www.texasarchive.org/library...tion,_no._4_-_The_Great_Houston_Flood_of_1935
http://www.texasarchive.org/library...tion,_no._4_-_The_Great_Houston_Flood_of_1935
F
freebullet
Guest
I'll lend thoughts & prayers, but how folks can live underwater is beyond me. What is more mind boggling is the number of cities that build in creeks, seas, oceans, streams, rivers, & other wetland areas where people cannot naturally reside. Can't wrap my mind around that. It pretty much proves that politicians are a special kinda slow.
We have a street here called saddle creek. Yup, they dun builter in a creek. I'm still not sure why they're surprised that it floods with almost no rain. They've spent millions on raising & drainage projects, but it's a freaking creek!
With a tornado it can happen almost anywhere, but whole flooded cities should probably be returned to nature & made into public hunting/fishin ground for the childrens.
We have a street here called saddle creek. Yup, they dun builter in a creek. I'm still not sure why they're surprised that it floods with almost no rain. They've spent millions on raising & drainage projects, but it's a freaking creek!
With a tornado it can happen almost anywhere, but whole flooded cities should probably be returned to nature & made into public hunting/fishin ground for the childrens.
Ian
Notorious member
I built on the side of a hill, well above the dry creek that will flood 100 yards wide every few decades, and still cut a surface drainage ditch behind the house, leading off in opposite directions. Haven't had wet carpet yet, even when the hill behind me is sheeting off 2" or more of solid water during a vicious rain dump.
RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Well, we have volcanoes once in a while (1792 and 1980), but no floods, unless you are stupid and build on the flash-flood plain, no tornadoes nor hail storms. Of course, there are no jobs here, nor cities, nor excitements. I'm good.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Ian,
Been in tornado alley since '79 now, haven't yet even seen one at a distance or had
one come within 40-50 miles of here. Good so far. Did seen the clouds get a totally
weird green one time while the sirens were wailing. Hope to not see that again.
Brad,
That "2-3 ft" is now 4 ft in many areas. Even if it was billiard table flat, 4 ft of water is really
not going to work, but then with real life terrain, it will be nothing in a bunch of it, and
15 ft in some, 6-8 in a good bit. Ugly. Sewage, oil, all sorts of spilled chemicals from factories
and such. Nasty stuff to be in. They are reporting it stinks real bad. All said, if I had a
jonboat and motor, I'd probably head down to help, but I don't any more.
Best know where the water flows in your place. My creeks have gotten well out of the bank a
number of times, but the good news is their drainage is only about 200 acres and a couple of
farm ponds. Even then a 18 inch wide 2 inch deep creek can be 12 ft wide and 3 ft deep in 30 minutes.
But, the house is about 25 ft higher up on top of the hill, so not going to ever flood. Might
be an island in a Noah class deluge, tho.
I have friend who's yard backs up to an wide arroyo in New Mexico. Sometimes car sized boulders roll down
in the arroyos when it rains big. Periodically some idiot from NYC or something comes by wanting to buy and build in "that
unused land behind your house". Takes a good bit of explaining why that would be a bad
idea. Folks don't think, a lot of the time. Usually have no concept of what an arroyo even is.
Bill
Been in tornado alley since '79 now, haven't yet even seen one at a distance or had
one come within 40-50 miles of here. Good so far. Did seen the clouds get a totally
weird green one time while the sirens were wailing. Hope to not see that again.
Brad,
That "2-3 ft" is now 4 ft in many areas. Even if it was billiard table flat, 4 ft of water is really
not going to work, but then with real life terrain, it will be nothing in a bunch of it, and
15 ft in some, 6-8 in a good bit. Ugly. Sewage, oil, all sorts of spilled chemicals from factories
and such. Nasty stuff to be in. They are reporting it stinks real bad. All said, if I had a
jonboat and motor, I'd probably head down to help, but I don't any more.
Best know where the water flows in your place. My creeks have gotten well out of the bank a
number of times, but the good news is their drainage is only about 200 acres and a couple of
farm ponds. Even then a 18 inch wide 2 inch deep creek can be 12 ft wide and 3 ft deep in 30 minutes.
But, the house is about 25 ft higher up on top of the hill, so not going to ever flood. Might
be an island in a Noah class deluge, tho.
I have friend who's yard backs up to an wide arroyo in New Mexico. Sometimes car sized boulders roll down
in the arroyos when it rains big. Periodically some idiot from NYC or something comes by wanting to buy and build in "that
unused land behind your house". Takes a good bit of explaining why that would be a bad
idea. Folks don't think, a lot of the time. Usually have no concept of what an arroyo even is.
Bill
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Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I didn't really want to get into the "why do they build there" end of things, but it's been breached and I haven't had my coffee yet. A local example- We have many homes and camps here on the St Lawrence River and it's tributaries. We also have had a higher than normal amount of rainfall this year (we're soaked!). All this year it's been one news story after another about the poor people whose docks are washing away or who have someone else's dock or boat or trash washing up on their lawn. You build within the historical (since the 50's when the dam was put in to form the St Lawrence Seaway) flood area and then they wonder why they get flooded! It makes little sense to me. But I find it's the same thing with the general climate and the industry formed around it changing. Nothing is static. We humans seem to often forget our lifetimes are just blip in time compared to the big rock we live on. We think what things have been like as far as weather or climate in our memory is how they must always be or things are somehow abnormal. Ha! We simply don't know what we don't know. And because of that we will continue to do the same dumb things time after time, and then we'll be surprised when we get a big storm or a monster snow fall or when we find out that those we put our trust in had no clue what they were doing. The saddest part is that lives will be lost, investments washed away, effort wasted and it will be done all over again next year!
It WILL be Trump's fault and would have been W's fault, and a right wing conspiracy to suppress the minorities. Al and the Obammasiah could have saved the world....
Politics and the deceptive media aside, I've always lived away from water on purpose. Having witnessed nearby flooding as I was growing up, I knew that I didn't want to be inconvenienced by the mess. When we decided to buy property to build a retirement home, I was careful to choose areas mostly out of reach of hurricanes, not subject to other than the rare tornado, temperate weather, yada, yada. I found wooded acreage on top of a knob, and the nearest neighbor is 1/2 mile away. My biggest concerns are windstorms blowing over trees.
The saddest part is that lives will be lost, investments washed away, effort wasted and it will be done all over again next year! So true. Add to that the concept that the 'Gov.' will pay/solve for it. Why weren't the reservoirs drained down before the flooding? Why weren't the emergency care facilities prepared to evacuate?, Etc. Hermann hosp. lost power before as their generators were in the basement. Same with BofA facility. $$ over common sense. This was predicted ~ a week beforehand, not like a tornado/plague of locusts/dust storm/etc.
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Bret absolutely nailed it. I have seen this on the Virginia coast, and the Florida coast, in the 'hollers' of WVa and here in the
middle of the country, KS and Mo along the creeks, the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers. Different settings, same thing. Building somewhere
that WILL flood, but not for 10-20 or even 30 or 50 years. Then be surprised when they do get flooded. And often somehow imagining
themselves as heroic and tough because "but we won't be beaten, we'll rebuild" with a touch of defiance in their voice.
The water doesn't care, it will flood you out again, when it gets around to it.
Look around on the run from KC to Omaha on I-29 some time. The interstate runs just up along the edge of the bluffs most
of the way. Most of the older farm houses and towns are right there. Up out of the river bottom, which floods periodically.
To the west, miles and miles of farm fields, down to the river, with an occasional power plant, which has
to be by the river for cooling water.
I have seen it flood a couple of times in the 30 some odd years I have lived here. But there are a few homes out there dotted in the fields,
out in the river bottom, defying the river. In the end, even the mountains lose to the rivers. Staying out of their way is the only
answer. Don't build in the river bottoms.
Ultimately, I don't mind the knuckleheads doing dumb stuff, but I do not want to subsidize it with my taxes. Rebuild in a flood
zone on your own nickle, please. What's the old quote, attributed to John Wayne, but I don't know if he really said it. But true
regardless. "Life is hard, and it is harder if you're stupid."
And yeah, time and time again I have seen where the knuckleheads, in areas where flooding
from a hurricane (but just shorthanded to "a hurricane") is the primary reason that they will
lose power, often in a multistory building, with their prudently purchased emergency
genset installed on the ground floor, or even sometimes in a basement.
I remember
a hospital, I think LSU Hospital, in NOLA which had this arrangement. Never works.
Bill
middle of the country, KS and Mo along the creeks, the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers. Different settings, same thing. Building somewhere
that WILL flood, but not for 10-20 or even 30 or 50 years. Then be surprised when they do get flooded. And often somehow imagining
themselves as heroic and tough because "but we won't be beaten, we'll rebuild" with a touch of defiance in their voice.
The water doesn't care, it will flood you out again, when it gets around to it.
Look around on the run from KC to Omaha on I-29 some time. The interstate runs just up along the edge of the bluffs most
of the way. Most of the older farm houses and towns are right there. Up out of the river bottom, which floods periodically.
To the west, miles and miles of farm fields, down to the river, with an occasional power plant, which has
to be by the river for cooling water.
I have seen it flood a couple of times in the 30 some odd years I have lived here. But there are a few homes out there dotted in the fields,
out in the river bottom, defying the river. In the end, even the mountains lose to the rivers. Staying out of their way is the only
answer. Don't build in the river bottoms.
Ultimately, I don't mind the knuckleheads doing dumb stuff, but I do not want to subsidize it with my taxes. Rebuild in a flood
zone on your own nickle, please. What's the old quote, attributed to John Wayne, but I don't know if he really said it. But true
regardless. "Life is hard, and it is harder if you're stupid."
And yeah, time and time again I have seen where the knuckleheads, in areas where flooding
from a hurricane (but just shorthanded to "a hurricane") is the primary reason that they will
lose power, often in a multistory building, with their prudently purchased emergency
genset installed on the ground floor, or even sometimes in a basement.
I remembera hospital, I think LSU Hospital, in NOLA which had this arrangement. Never works.
Bill
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KHornet
Well-Known Member
Yep Bill! Have noticed along I-29 after the last flooding particularly here in
Ne, that a number of newer homes have been built on raised ground, at least
4-5 feet above the last high water mark. Agree on not subsidizing stupidity, and
the quote (believe it was one of John Wayne's). I miss the Duke!
Pajul
Ne, that a number of newer homes have been built on raised ground, at least
4-5 feet above the last high water mark. Agree on not subsidizing stupidity, and
the quote (believe it was one of John Wayne's). I miss the Duke!
Pajul