Inline 50 1-28 and conicals

[TomSp8]

Hope this is the correct place to post this question, and I tend to ask lengthy questions once I start typing...lol... I have an older Knight Wolverine and a Remington 700ML. Black powder shooting is not really a thing I want to spend a lot of time with, but I will usually hunt once or twice a year with it. Realistic shots for me will be 75 yards max. I've always used sabots, but they are a real bear for me to load with a fouled barrel even with the Harvester crushed rib ones.The last several years I've been using the inexpensive TC Cheap Shots with Harvesters. Since I began casting, I thought now might be a good time to think about full bore conicals. Dad gave me a single cavity mold that came with a blackpowder kit gun he built decades ago, that has no markings, so I cast a few using lead pipe ingots and tin (Thanks Dusty for the tin!). They are not perfectly round, with about .001 to. 002 runout. The bottom bands are .499 to .501, the center bands are .501 to .503, and the forward bands are .505 to .507. I pulled the breech plugs of both rifles and ran one bullet each down and back out. The bullet had only slight resistance (but still required pushing in) until the top band, which required a bit of a tap, but then slid down much easier than a sabot. (This is with a clean barrel). I am getting about .005 into the grooves, but obviously the grooves are deeper than that. I guess my question is, is this enough groove depth to get spin, or a total waste of time to even try them? Looks like my bore is about .501, but have not slugged for actual groove depth. *This particular bullet did not get a good crisp flat base but most did..

 

[Brad]

Cast from pure lead that bullet will do all that is needed. At ignition the base begins to move before the nose and this causes the bullet to expand enough for a good seal.

My preferred projectile in guns like this is a Lyman 457122 HP cast from pure lead and sized to .452. Loaded in a sabot they shoot well and the expansion needs to beep seen to believe. Deadly on broadside deer.

 

[Tomme boy]

That bullet is the maxi-ball. Should be in the 370gr range. You need to run the lead hotter to get fill out. The bands should be a lot sharper than that. That bullet would get thrown back in the pot if it was mine.

I am working on my TC inline right now. I have that mold and both of the Lee 50 cal molds. I will give you some help on what really helps shooting conicals. Get a 9/16" hollow punch. Go to this web site and order some hard felt. http://www.durofelt.com/products.html If you call or email them tell them you need the felt for wads in a muzzleloader. They know which to give you.

Now you will need to punch out a bunch of wads. Then you need to get lube on them. I take them and put them in a double boiler to melt the lube I make. You will need a black powder lube, not lube used in regular cast bullets. What you do is pour your powder in the barrel. Put a lubed wad in the muzzle and push it in just a little bit. Make sure it is flat. Then put your bullet in the muzzle and seat the bullet. This does 2 things. The most important is it protects the base of the bullet. And it helps lube the barrel between shots. I have seen groups shrink in half by using the wads.

I am ordering a new mold from Accurate on Monday. It will have a lite bullet and a heavy bullet in the same mold.

 

[fiver]

that bullet will fit a whole lot better when the powder mushes it into a different shape and diameter.

anyway run your mold like your trying to burn the paint off it.
just keep filling and dumping and filling and dumping.
your not gonna frost them none, and you need the heat to get the proper fill out.

 

[TomSp8]

Threw them all back in the pot this morning. Cleaned/scrubbed the mould blocks. Heated the lead to 800/825 and added another half stick of tin. Heated the mould on the other burner. (Two burner Coleman stove, 10lb pot, and ladle). Ran as fast as I could, it took about 8 to 10 seconds for the lead to cool for the sprue cut. Dropped 5 in the sprue pile without even looking at them. Cast about 30 bullets, and inspected/measured every one. Much better results, most were only about .001 out of round and a tad larger diameter base. I ended up with 22 that I felt were keepers with a minimum .506/.507 top band and a minimum .500/.501 bottom band. They are about 360 grains. How do these look?

 

[Brad]

Still seeing rounded bases. Mould isn’t hot enough. Also, pure lead needs a larger sprue as I shrinks more on cooling.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Just a pinch or two of tin/pewter wont be enoughbto appreciably harden but might help
Break tension for complete fill out. (You can also try hotter)

 

[TomSp8]

I was pouring just about the entire ladle full letting it run off the mould back into the pot. This mold is brass, is it possible to over heat the mould? Using an infred thermometer I was getting 275 to 375 degrees at various spots on the mold after preheating it. What should the minimum temp of the mould be? I was thinking the length of time it took for the lead to flash over was an indicator of mould temp. Maybe I should loosen the sprue plate a tad? These blocks don't have any vent lines.

 

[TomSp8]

Okay....lead temp at 825/850. Mold blocks preheated to minimum of 400 (sprue platee over 500!). After casting these, mold blocks were still at 375 to 400. Went as fast I could but the lead took a bit to frost over...If these measure out good, looks like this is what I'll get....

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

Thats generally considered "TOO HOT" or hotter then needed. IMHO its mold temp More then alloy..

BUT the bullet appear properly filled and sharp edged.

Bottom line some molds/alloys need extreme temps. Its not hurting anything that hot with a nearly pure PB alloy.

CW

 

[TomSp8]

Thanks everyone for your input. Hopefully I will give these a try in the next couple weeks. If they suck, I'll stay with the sabots this year. I lubed the bottom groove only, with SPG, using my fingers, and made sure to wipe the bottoms dry. Should I smear more on them? I can fit 6 in a hard plastic test tube to keep them clean. And I will try out the wool felt over powder wads as well. As I said originally, just looking for a 75 or so yard load for deer that I can reload quickly without swabbing the bore. I'll only hunt with these once or twice a year.

 

[obssd1958]

I don't know if it's right or wrong, but I have always covered the entire lube area - top and bottom - with Bore Butter. I use a 420gr. duplicate of your conical in my .54 cal, 1 in 48 twist. I also use a bore butter soaked felt wad under every round. I found that it made it much more accurate and consistent.
I've killed one animal with that conical on top of 100gr. of 777. A cow elk, with one shot, at 165 yds.
She took two or three steps, fell into the snow, and slid back to where she had been standing.

 

[fiver]

400 is about right for a brass mold.

 

[Tomme boy]

Don't lube that top band. TC does it with theirs because they use a hard wax and has to survive shipping. Its not needed. I doubt that the mold is brass. It is anodized aluminum. They were this or iron.

One thing you need to look out for is not running them too fast. Stay below 1600fps. I would not go any more than 90 grs of any of the black grades or fake powder. T7 has to be reduced 15% as it is more powerful than any of the powders. I would sty away from bh209 as it needs a 209 mag primer and more bullet resistance than an all lead can make.

Look to 70-90grs of 2F black or pyrodex rs

 

[Ian]

Yep, TC moulds are gold anodized aluminum. 420 is about right for pure lead/aluminum. If you aren't shucking at least four a minute out of the mould you're too slow.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I agree with speed and charg recommendations. You will see, no need to try to hot rod such a chunk of lead.
Tomme also recommended that over powder wad and it can be a deal changer. So be sure you try it too. It protects the base of the bullet.

CW

 

[TomSp8]

Hot rodding is not really in my nature. I've always just dropped two 50gr pellets and a sabot (experimented with multiple bullets and sabots though nothing serious). I have a bottle of Pyrodex P loose that I'm also gonna try, starting at 70 grains. I don't have any loose RS, or real black, and from what I've read, along with data from Pyrodex, it is acceptable to use. Hopefully I will find a light comfortable accurate enough load. Was gonna buy a Lee REAL mold. But I'm trying to make do with what I have on hand this year without spending money. But I will invest in the wool wads to try. Limited funds and inflation is killin me!

 

[Maven]

You can make your own felt wads, Tom if you have a 1/2" arch punch or can make one by sharpening a length of 1/2" die. black iron pipe. You can get the felt here: http://www.durofelt.com Go to "Products" and scroll down to 1/8" and 1/4" felt that are marked "Good for wads."

 

[Winelover]

Not 50 caliber but 54 (390 grains) for my Renegade. Cast these (Lee 10# bottom pour) from 100% pure lead about 20 -25 years ago, TC single cavity. They kick like a mule with 100 grains of Pyrodex. Never shot at a deer with them. Preference is for patched round ball (230 grains) that's far easier on the shoulder and effective.






Tried sabots with 44 & 45 caliber cast bullets but never saw the point when ultra soft lead RB is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[Tomme boy]

You can buy the wads already made. Go with 54 cal if you do. Just look up 54 cal wads. Dry will be cheaper if you have lube and do it yourself.

The pyro P will work fine. Just look up data for 3F as that is what it is. 70 grs might be max loading though.