Legal question

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I have to liquidate all of my casting components and equipment. I have a boat load (100s of lbs) of as cast bullets. Other than selling them by the lb at whatever lead is going for. How can I sell them without a manufacturing license ? 30 cal 45 cal 44 cal 35 cal
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
If your question is about a one time sale of components, I'm not sure a license of any type is needed. You're not engaged in the business of selling ammunition.
The first question is: "Do components need to be sold under a license"? Then there's the question of, "does a one time event qualify as engaged in the business of selling ammunition"?

You could find a third party to sell the items for you. You could sell the items at a gun show / swap meet / yard sale / etc.
You could sell the items for scrap, but that would likely be under value.
You could sell the items via consignment (and let someone else worry about the details)
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Its a good question. Not one of us would give selling some Jacketed bullets we dont need a second thought.

Why should theses cast be any different? Your NOT making cast ta sell. Your liquidating unwanted @ a one time sale.

Im no lawyer, but INTENT weighs heavy on those who would give this a second look.

Id list as you have here. NOT MAKING FOR SALE ONE TIME, LIQUIDATION of UNWANTED items.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Where are you located Kevin? If you are within striking distance, we might be able to make a deal. I'm looking for lead. So, bullets would be treated purely as lead. I might be interested in equipment as well.
 

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I have to liquidate all of my casting components and equipment. I have a boat load (100s of lbs) of as cast bullets. Other than selling them by the lb at whatever lead is going for. How can I sell them without a manufacturing license ? 30 cal 45 cal 44 cal 35 cal
You should probably look up what exactly defines the need for a manufacturing license. There is likely some verbiage related to a for profit enterprise. I don't know, not being a lawyer, but that's where I'd start.
 

Ian

Notorious member
The ATF regulations on this are quite clear and it has nothing to do with "intent". Kevin already understands his situation.

The only legal way to dispose of your own cast bullets you made yourself is make ingots out of them and sell those.

Now, if you don't happen to remember where you got all those cast bullets, the buyer doesn't need to know.
 

462

California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
1. Melt them and sell the ingots.
2. Sell them to a scrap metal yard.
3. Give them away, but add a dollar handling charge for each pound of bullets.
4. Shot them.
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Like all questions based on a faulty premise, you must first correct the question.

IS THE SALE OF CAST LEAD BULLETS REGULATED BY THE ATF?

Cast lead bullets are just another form of lead. They are not ammunition, they are not cartridges, they are just pieces of lead. I don’t think the ATF cares about them.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
the key phrase in their wording is 'in the business'
your not manufacturing, your just moving stuff along that you may or may not have bought elsewhere.
 

Kevin Stenberg

Well-Known Member
I did manufacture (make) the projectiles for my use, but now am planning to dispose of them in hopefully large quantities. The trouble is i have an add over there for about 900lbs of assorted lead types in ingot form. That I don't want to ship but having a sale FTF. JonB already took all of my WW lead.
Yes I already have checked salvage yards. Any lead they buy for 25 cents a lb. If I remelt the bullets that just adds to my loss when selling
 
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Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
FYI, Any and all parts of a cartridge are "legally" considered ammunition.

CW
I agree that ATF's definition of ammunition includes "bullets" but that's only part of the OP's question.
The second half involves the licensing requirement if one is "engaged in the business......" (of selling firearms and/or ammunition).

In the case at hand the OP is clearly not "engaged in the business", he is simply disposing of a collection of components.
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
I agree that ATF's definition of ammunition includes "bullets" but that's only part of the OP's question.
The second half involves the licensing requirement if one is "engaged in the business......" (of selling firearms and/or ammunition).

In the case at hand the OP is clearly not "engaged in the business", he is simply disposing of a collection of components.
Ooh, I agree, just read #3 posting.

CW
 

CWLONGSHOT

Well-Known Member
Give your local ATF office a call and ask them. Be polite. Explain in detail that you are not selling loaded cartridges. Get the name of the person you talk to or a follow up email. FWIW.
Respectfully, this isnt likely to work as you will get a different answer from each person in that office. Or the answer will be a flat NO YOU CANT.

CW
 

Petrol & Powder

Well-Known Member
Respectfully, this isnt likely to work as you will get a different answer from each person in that office. Or the answer will be a flat NO YOU CANT.

CW
1. You will not know until you ask.
2. the opinion of a law enforcement officer is not law, nor is it even a legal opinion. But it can be valuable information to point you to the controlling law.
3. It doesn't hurt to ask and a written response goes a long way to showing your intention to comply with the law.
4. I know several ATF agents and several federal prosecutors. I don't know ANY federal agents or prosecutors that would even be REMOTELY interested in prosecuting a law-abiding hobbist that was disposing of a personal collection of cast bullets in a one-time event. Furthermore, there would be no downside to seeking a written response from those people prior to acting. They are not seeking to entrap an innocent citizen by providing false information about the law.
 

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I'm no lawyer, but I'd never have questioned selling personal property on a one-time basis myself, except that the initiatives and objectives of the ATF tend to change with administrations - not to get political, but any "agency" or entity responsible for effecting regulatory law has to work within limitations and are subject to assisting in vicariously fulfilling campaign promises - regardless of who's "in charge." I don't think the ATF knows what's legal sometimes and am not sure they would or would not have thought to redefine things established almost 90 years ago without some "encouragement" from higher up.

I personally HATE selling stuff online any more and have grown to really, really dislike going to gun shows, let alone setting up at one, so I mostly sit on stuff for a long time. My personal tack would probably be to sell by word of mouth as much as I can for SOMETHING more than the scrap value of the alloy, and eventually tire of that and convince someone to take what's left - the "whole lot" for a price they can't refuse. "Make me an offer and come get it!" The handling, dealing with carriers and their ridiculous prices, some nitwit who complains "there are water-marks on the blade" - wait, that was a knife. Done with that unless it's someone here I don't mind going to the trouble for.

Sitting on stuff has costs. At some point, that cost exceeds the value of what it is you're sitting on and, depending on the situation, costs and values are different, even subjective at times, but it's a personal decision whether one involves a field agent and a lawyer or not.

I've called the nearest field office twice within a year looking for some help on clarification on a matter and have still not heard BOO back, for what, like a year now? Yeah, that route was a dead end.