Legal - Safe Powder Storage

Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
I am getting close to 35 lbs of total powder. In my house in an old mini refrigerator. With a dehumidifier. (It is quite damp where I live.)
Plan on buying another 5 this week.
Now we have no state laws on this. Maybe a few fire codes.
I understand an individual by federal law can have 50 lbs stored like I have mine in one place in the house.
Also 50 lbs total of black powder period.
And 162 lbs in total gun powder on a single estate, loaded or not. Without a license-permit.

Was just wondering on storage plans if I go above 50lbs.
Can I break up in two different places in the house. Or must I store the rest outside?
What are the different stipulations on this.
Also primer storage. Is it ok to store them in a separate plastic box in the fridge,with the powder jugs? Do they count for total weight?
 
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Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
My thought, with the refrigerator inside. Was I could control the blast, or flare up if happened, by directing it to an outside wall. By use of The plastic and foam back on the mini fridge. With a couple vent holes. Where nothing is around it on the other side to spread the fire. Also control humidity with those little dollar store desiccant tubs.
 
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Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
One of the things I am getting at, is outside storage.
Figure if I broke my storage up into two areas. One outside long term , and one in the house for current usage. I could max my Variety of powders, and still stay legal. Without buying a stamp.
What temp variation can I have. Safely storing in a shed. Venting ect.
Dusty and I have already had a good pm back and forth on this. But really would like to hear some others Ideas or work arounds.
Our weather swings, it's about -5 to 110 ish range. My area is very damp. And my shed is in the shade in the evening.
 
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J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Mitty38 said:
My thoughts with the refrigerator inside was I could control the blast, or flare up if happened, by directing it to an outside wall. By use of The plastic and foam back on the mini fridge with a couple vent holes. Where nothing is around it on the other side to spread the fire.
Click to expand...

If you want to "CONTROL the blast," you could do so by DIRECTING the blast - UP, by cutting out the top and replacing it with a loosely-fitted "plug." Cables or chains could be added to only allow it to travel so far, if you have concerns about someone lifting the plug and stealing your powder. This was a standard feature on all industrial gas ovens when I was in that business.

I use a defunct freezer because it seals well enough to mitigate air exchange and moderates temp swings. Not that I have that much powder to store, but I keep a lot of other stuff in there which I want to protect from humidity. I got it from a deceased friend who kept welding rod in it in his barn. He didn't intentionally leave it to me, someone was actually going to throw it out when they were clearing up his estate!

EDIT: I'd skip the vent holes and not add a dehumidifier. The type of dehumidifiers used in gun safes produce a significant amount of heat. Inside an insulated fridge, especially a small one, it could get pretty warm in there. If you DO that, then DO put vent holes in but put them in the top and bottom. That would just continually draw in moist air (until spiders clog the holes up) though, so sort of corrects a problem it will cause. If you just keep one closed up, all should be well. If you have to get something out of it after a week-long cold snap - on one of those sudden balmy days that makes everything in the shop, garage and barn "sweat," just don't open it all the way. Crack the door, grab what you want and close it quickly.
 
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fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
there's no blast with smokeless powder.
it burns very inefficiently if it isn't contained, but it does still make a volume of gas.

the old NFPA recommendation was to put it in a vented wood cabinet so the gas can simply escape and not be contained.
that's why powder containers have seams, and their lids are designed to pop off if any powder does start to burn inside.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
NFPA and requirements for base housing on an ammo depot in another life.

32# in a nominal 1" wood cabinet with vents and or a blow out wall .
Additional cabinets may be spaced 24' apart or 10' with an 8' fire wall .

Typically local ordinance will be verbatim.
While I would agree that a magnetic seal fridge would provide a blowout wall the very last thing you want with anything that violently expands is any opportunity for it to build any pressure.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
fiver said:
there's no blast with smokeless powder.
it burns very inefficiently if it isn't contained, but it does still make a volume of gas.

the old NFPA recommendation was to put it in a vented wood cabinet so the gas can simply escape and not be contained.
that's why powder containers have seams, and their lids are designed to pop off if any powder does start to burn inside.
Click to expand...
I don't think the NFPA specs are old ?
.
NFPA 495 copywrite 1996
.
Mitty, when it comes to "work-a-rounds", the thing that would concern me most, is home-owners Insurance.
.
Oh, Primers is more restrictive than you think. I learned that one year at a gunshow, the vendor with the best primer prices only had some many bricks on the table, I hoped to buy more than he had. He said he sold some, but he was limited to only transporting 25 bricks in his car, I guess he had been pinched for it at some point?
 
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Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
RBHarter said:
NFPA and requirements for base housing on an ammo depot in another life.

32# in a nominal 1" wood cabinet with vents and or a blow out wall .
Additional cabinets may be spaced 24' apart or 10' with an 8' fire wall .

Typically local ordinance will be verbatim.
While I would agree that a magnetic seal fridge would provide a blowout wall the very last thing you want with anything that violently expands is any opportunity for it to build any pressure.
Click to expand...
I have two 2" holes drilled in the plastic rear of the fridge. With a piece of duct tape over them. Figure that would let go way before the powder got hot enough to do anything.
When and if I do the outdoor storage. A wooden cabinet sounds like the way to go.
So according to your info. I can put one pretty big cabinet in my shed. At least big enough that I should be good to go for a while.
Now I don't think cold is going to be an issue for storage. So I just have to figure how to keep the stuff outside from extreme heat.
 
Mitty38

Mitty38

Well-Known Member
JonB said:
I don't think the NFPA specs are old ?
.
NFPA 495 copywrite 1996
.
Mitty, when it comes to "work-a-rounds", the thing that would concern me most, is home-owners Insurance.
.
Oh, Primers is more restrictive than you think. I learned that one year at a gunshow, the vendor with the best primer prices only had some many bricks on the table, I hoped to buy more than he had. He said he sold some, but he was limited to only transporting 25 bricks in his car, I guess he had been pinched for it at some point?
Click to expand...
No worries on the Insurance. I can't get any.
I live in a flood Zone as of the reworking of our flood plane about 10 years ago. And I had let mine laps when sick so ...ye.
 
JonB

JonB

Halcyon member
Yeah, you don't want heat for sure.
Regarding cold, the problem comes from condensation from water in the air, as the ambient temp bounces above and below the freezing point...on freezing rainy fall days, or any warm spring day as the snow melts and the frost goes out of the ground.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Brad said:
Weren’t they with your rifles?
Click to expand...

No, the rifles and shotguns were all in the boat ahead of it that went down too, but all the ammo was with the components and lost. 6" of freeboard isn't enough when the wind picks up.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
i couldn't remember the newest version.
i actually have a copy of the NFPA rules around here somewhere,,, maybe, i think... at least i did when i had my E.E license, it was with my engineering red book.
 
Glaciers

Glaciers

Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Just don’t talk about it. I don’t know how much I have, couple pounds of this and a couple pounds of that. Well I just never could get the inventory current it seems.
Sometimes I have a hard time remembering my name first thing in the morning, have to look at my drivers license.
 
Bret4207

Bret4207

At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
Personally, I would not rattle that particular chain, but if I felt I had to- You need to talk to the people that enforce the laws on this in YOUR area, not on a world wide website like this. There may be local regs none here will even be aware of. Try starting with your local gunshop and see who they talk to about safe storage.
 
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