Lube question

[RBHarter]

That is the beauty of these forums .
We take the written word boil it down to the bones and flesh it back out with 250 yr of hands on holes that range from descriptions of details to details about why that happened.

Insights as to why a particular ingredient works and why it screws things up when there too much or not enough or added out of sequence........zinc and ivory come immediately to mind followed by moly .

 

[fiver]

second time in 5 minutes i've seen Moly mentioned here.

i still use the stuff as a lube ingredient.

 

[JonB]

I use to use a Honda brand motorcycle oil with Moly...I think that's the only time Moly was in my possession.

 

[MW65]

second time in 5 minutes i've seen Moly mentioned here.

i still use the stuff as a lube ingredient.

I like my 50/50 moly bee, with some added carnuba... works pretty well for me!

 

[fiver]

bees wax-soy wax [60-40] about 10% paraffin.... [or some carnuba red]
heated to peanut butter consistency and a quarter moly lube stick added along with white lithium grease.. [moly grease works, but not 1/4 tube,, waay too much]
it's best if you run the whole thing under some pressure and extrude it before lubing with it.
no extra oils added.

 

[CZ93X62]

Even the relatively primitive 50/50 BW/Alox lubes are 'Too much of a good thing' on Keith bullets. I had a lot of #429421 bullets lubed with Javelina 30+ years ago. I was playing with one of my 4" 29s at the range one day and posted B-27 targets at ranges from 7 to 50 yards. The lube slinging onto the target paper didn't really let up until the 25 yard line, and was still present. The bullets hit well to 25 yards, but started going 'Full choke' at 50. My thoughts at the time were that lube slinging was probably random and uneven as ^&%#, so once some distance entered the equation the variances induced by the slinging started showing up.

After that session I loaded 100 loads using the same powder charge (9.0 x Herco) from the same W-W brass and CCI #300 primers--but loaded with Lyman #429244 in place of the Keith design. These had only the gas check gap and first lube groove filled with Javelina.

Much mo' bettah. There was only slight lube slinging at 7 yards, and it disappeared at 15. Accuracy was good at 25--about 2.5" groups. At 50 yards the groups were 5.5"-6.5". My thoughts are that lube slinging in extreme examples (like Keith-inspired designs) can introduce variables that nobody needs downrange.

Now for the 'Heresy' portion of my post......I believe that Keith bullets should be modernized. Reduce lube capacity by at least 60% and the crimping groove by 50%, and replace the displaced space with drive band length. I played with that idea years ago on the Mountain Molds' design software and came up with same-length bullets that weighed about 255 grains in .433" diameter. A series of "Improved Keith" designs from 32 to 45 caliber revolvers was my intent, but lacked the capital at that time to have moulds cut.

 

[Brad]

Keith bullets modernized? Who has some rope?

While I do like a good SWC bullet I don’t know that there is anything magical about the Keith bullets. Better than many designs but there are plenty of others that will work as well. They do carry a bit of lube.

Elmer was great at self promotion and was active in an era where there not as many options. His designs certainly have stood the test of time.

 

[RicinYakima]

The other option is to go back to sheep tallow and bee's wax lube, all the lube is gone in a couple of feet of the muzzle.

 

[fiver]

keep it or fling it off all at once.
i still have a pretty good pile of that much mis-aligned Magma engineering lube the commercial casters use.
it doesn't have anything in it but micro-wax and a little carnuba wax.
it stays in the lube grooves all the way into the dirt.
i will quite often mix it 50-50 with carnuba red for various bullets when i want to push them hard with a faster powder.
[think 9mm at full speed with red-dot or 700-X]

 

[L Ross]

Keith bullets modernized? Who has some rope?

While I do like a good SWC bullet I don’t know that there is anything magical about the Keith bullets. Better than many designs but there are plenty of others that will work as well. They do carry a bit of lube.

Elmer was great at self promotion and was active in an era where there not as many options. His designs certainly have stood the test of time.

Oh hell, Elmer was an "Influencer"?

 

[L Ross]

The other option is to go back to sheep tallow and bee's wax lube, all the lube is gone in a couple of feet of the muzzle.

Ding ding ding ding! If you are going to play old games, play by the old rules! Also try 1,200 fps and the pressure it takes to attain that. The large lube capacity may prove more valuable then.

I found a peanut butter jar of 421's in the shed, round grooves. They mic out at .4315, Damn near gave me the vapors. I tumbled them in BLL. Those should work with about 8 grains of Unique to knock down steel and make noise. I figure if I set the Redding powder measure at 8 gr. of Unique I should be able to load .38 w.c.f., .44 w.c.f., .44 mag mid range, and .45 Colt and never have to change the setting. When the 16 lbs. of Unique runs out I'll quit.

 

[Ian]

If you are going to play old games, play by the old rules!

Yup. Or make a lube that works well enough in everything, all the time, like SL-71B.

 

[fiver]

that's a blip more than i use in those same cartridges when i just want something to act like it has black powder in the case without all the smoke and noise.

 

[L Ross]

Yup. Or make a lube that works well enough in everything, all the time, like SL-71B.

But, we found out that lube supports the grooves in BP bullets and I'll bet it does the same in Keith style, especially at higher pressures. So if we are shooting bullets with bigger lube grooves perhaps a larger amount of less efficient lube has some merit.