Lubrication and lubricants.... not bullet lube

[Michael]

Reading through the post on one's "Favorite Press" and what we each like brought back a memory. A number of years ago i.e. 25-ish, I was in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area stopped into Dillon to check out their presses, this was before they were commonly found in a LGS. Another customer was discussing presses with a Dillon employee and asked about what would be their recommendation for lubrication of their presses. The employee responded with what seemed a rather interesting answer, and the reason why, 30W was the answer. The employee asked the gentleman what is one of most demanding environments for lubrication... the internal combustion engine, think about how much engineering has to go into developing something that will be up to that task.

That memory started me thinking about lubrication in general for firearms. Granted there are issues of protecting from rust and corrosion caused by, moisture, salt, sweat, contact with skin, animal blood, etc. Not to mention things like polarity, viscosity, along with other characteristics that are way above my chemistry education. But it started the wheels turning, in terms of basic lubrication and friction, are the scores of "modern high tech" lubes really that much better than 30W under normal conditions that we frequently shoot in. I know that some lubricants thicken up has the temperature drops.

Now.... I am very confident that some of you have a far greater grasp and chemical working knowledge of this topic than many of us, especially myself, which is perfectly fine. Thinking the replies and explainations should be very educational and enlightening.

 

[PGPKY2014]

A very interesting and relative post.A few years ago I asked two different local gunsmiths about lubinga semi autos (pistols) and both told me 20 or 30 weight, depending on the time of year.Irecently changed to synthetic and con not tell any difference. both do a very good job for me.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I keep a can of a dry spray lube ans a ol school oul can with "motor oil". Usually collected from "empty" qts after a oil change. I set them up to "drip" & use all around the house. Mostly 5w30 50/50 but 0w50 syn is mixed as well as Rotella 10w40 dino oil for my ol truck wanting that zinc for the valve train.

CW

 

[Petrol & Powder]

My Dillon 550 manual recommends straight 30 weight oil for the ram. And that is what I used for the life of that press and others. The lubrication demands for equipment such as that are not very severe. There’s no high-speed movement, no heat and almost no lateral loads. The oil needs to be heavy enough to stay in place and not evaporate or harden.

The pivot points get plain old wheel bearing grease. The loads are a bit heavier there. Some of the sliding surfaces get a tiny amount of white lithium grease.

When it comes lubrication of guns and gun related gear like presses – gun people tend to overthink this stuff.

This is, in my opinion, the best article on the topic:

Lubrication 101: Gun oil, snake oil, and how to tell the difference. – www.GrantCunningham.com

 

[Petrol & Powder]

A very interesting and relative post.A few years ago I asked two different local gunsmiths about lubinga semi autos (pistols) and both told me 20 or 30 weight, depending on the time of year.Irecently changed to synthetic and con not tell any difference. both do a very good job for me.

When I was young and poor, (as opposed to now being old and poor) Dexron -II [ATF] was my gun oil. It was free for all practical purposes, and it worked perfectly. If I needed to, I would return to that without hesitation.

I’ve seen old farm guns that went a lifetime with the bore being cleaned with a patch & a little bit of kerosene. 3 in 1 oil was used for everything else (the action, wiping the metal down, etc.) Those guns easily outlived their owners and were fine.

Like most gun enthusiasts, I have accumulated a shelf full of gun related cleaning and lubricating products. However, over the years I’ve settled on just a few:

Kroil for general cleaning and cleaning the bore after shooting lead bullets.

Hoppes #9 for cleaning the bore after shooting jacketed bullets.

Clenzoil for an all-purpose cleaner/lubricant/preservative.

RIG for long term protection of ferrous metals

Lubriplate No. 130 for sliding surfaces (may be replaced with Lubriplate 105 engine assembly lube for cold weather applications)

 

[richhodg66]

I have a dropper bottle of Mobil 1 synthetic motor oil on the gun cleaning bench that pretty much covers all oil uses for me. After cleaning, a light wipe down seems to keep the rust off and a few drops on the ram of the Rockchcuker after wiping it down with Ed's Red seems to work there too.

 

[Snakeoil]

I think that Michael's post was more about "why??" 30 wt oil. Here are my limited knowledge thoughts based upon what I've learned about oils over the years.

I think that the primary reasons are two fold. First, 30w is readily available and brand really makes no difference. There are a million oil threads on the web that will confirm that the brand of a given type of oil for the most part makes no difference. Pretty much anyone with a lawnmower will have a jug of 30w somewhere in the shed or garage.

The other reason is film strength. 30w, and most engine oils in general tend to cling well to a surface. In an engine this is a requirement for cold engine starting. If all the oil runs off the surface, when you start your engine in the morning, you would be rubbing metal against metal and shortening the lives of the various mating parts. So motor oils are designed to have what is called "film strength". So, the ram on your press, the lugs on your bolt action, the pivots in your pistols as well as the slide rails will always have some oil clinging to them to provide lube.

There is probably a 3rd reason why 30w specifically. That would be the viscosity itself does not lend itself to evaporation over time. This again assures you'll have lube between mating surfaces that are exposed to the air. The oils in spray cans have to be pretty thin to actually spray. So they tend to evaporate. I'm sure they are designed to leave behind a lubricating residue, but if it is dry, it can be scraped off rather than smeared around.

Bottom line is I believe the gunmakers and the reloading equipment folks have taken the KISS principle to heart and recommend a lube that pretty much everyone has or can get locally without searching all the snakeoil brands on LGS gun shelves and will do the job well.

 

[JonB]

Does 30W become dry with age?
About the time I started using a reloading press about 2+ decades ago, Kano Labs [Kroil] was doing a major advertising push. I worked in the Electronics and Electrical Industrial Control manufacturing world my entire career, so I seen lots of different products pushed over those years. Anyway, Kano Labs has a product called Microil, a fine machine tool oil that is advertised to never dry. I bought a quart [lifetime supply for me] on a super deal (same price as a qt of auto oil), so that's what I put on my reloading Press ...works great and now use it on all of them...I haven't ever looked back. It's probably a similar product to a quality sewing machine oil.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Does 30W become dry with age?
About the time I started using a reloading press about 2+ decades ago, Kano Labs [Kroil] was doing a major advertising push. I worked in the Electronics and Electrical Industrial Control manufacturing world my entire career, so I seen lots of different products pushed over those years. Anyway, Kano Labs has a product called Microil, a fine machine tool oil that is advertised to never dry. I bought a quart [lifetime supply for me] on a super deal (same price as a qt of auto oil), so that's what I put on my reloading Press ...works great and now use it on all of them...I haven't ever looked back. It's probably a similar product to a quality sewing machine oil.

I have a can of Mircoil from Kano and I agree, it appears to be very similar to sewing machine oil, AKA 3 in 1 oil, albeit, probably more refined. I think it is geared towards fine machinery and instruments. Some of our machinist members will probably chime in.



I still think plain old 30 weight is sufficient for the ram on a press. In fact, it is probably ideal. It is thin enough to provide little drag and thick enough to stay put.
Again, not a really high stress environment.

 

[MW65]

For most of my milsurps, automatenfett or a moly grease is used for general lubrication. I have synthetic oil for others...

 

[Snakeoil]

For most of my milsurps, automatenfett or a moly grease is used for general lubrication. I have synthetic oil for others...

Not to argue, but I hate anything with moly in it. My experience has been that in a relatively short time, it turns to glue. Maybe not so much on guns because they get lubed and cleaned a lot. But on vehicular stuff, like control cables and such, I've had to soak them to get it out and then lube with a regular grease or oil.

Something I forgot to mention because I was replying purely to the 30w oil question, as far as protection in storage, I've been using Birchwood Casey Sheath for years with great results. Wipe the metal parts down and forget about them. Of course this assume dry storage. Not sure anything will work 100% in a damp environment.

 

[RBHarter]

Being a RCBS press guy I asked RCBS what the preferred lubricant was , the answer was Lubriplate , the white engine assembly lube grease . Continental and Lycoming recommend 50/50 with STP for assy lube . Vaseline is recommended for the Lee rams .

I lived my life in the desert where the dust is 50-100% decomposed granite depending on how much wind there is and the season . If you've used diamond grit anything I can assure that granite dust is only slightly less cutting/abrading. Sticky grease is a bad choice. Quarterly depending on use I would wash the presses out with WD or whatever cheap crap spray slick was on sale for 89¢ a can at Walmart. Then wet the rams in 3 in 1 , the real one and a finger slip of STP with the ram up around the base let the ram down and wipe it dry below the O . I would of course leave the oil if I were working and dry I off when I was done . I fore go the wipe down and let the over lube with 3-1 do the wash out here in Arkansas.

I tried a lot of lubes from old outers graphite grease to the assorted graphite and Teflon dry lubes to just leaving them wet in Hoppes #9 in shotguns I hunted in everything from 70° sunshine to 0° and blowing sand ,rain , and snow , it's the life of the diehard duck guy on desert big water . I ended up with Napa DGF in the barrels and until it became unavailable Singer oil for everything that moved .

The advantages of the light machine oils is that they have a low to very low prime lubebrication temperature window engine oils really start to work from 160° up to around 230-280° where they are not only at maximum slip but also most efficient at heat exchange . The light machine oils do it around 50-100° . Lighter oils trade more heat ......

The low speed viscosity is what we need in our presses. We don't heat exchange we need film but it shouldn't be thick or sticky while it does need to stay put . It should also not absorb water or emolsify (sp) making grey/white slime goo .

Silicone, graphite and Teflon suck as gun and ram lubes . Graphite gave me a precoat in the shotguns that kept me from having plastic lines and added 10 fps to the first 5 rounds that would show up around 20 rounds without. Not really significant but it offered the percentage of perceived confidence for shooting steel at lead ranges with 200 fps MV on equal weight pellets .

So that's a summary of oils available to me and on hand from 1978 to now used in deserts and bogs from -10 to 108° dirty and clean from 5-140 weight designed and intended for sewing machines to 4300 cid air cooled blown engines and up to 900 cid 600 hp diesels including 1.8-8 liter gasoline engines.

I have a running test with Hoppes white grease in an AR and Mauser like actions .

 

[Michael]

I think that Michael's post was more about "why??" 30 wt oil. Here are my limited knowledge thoughts based upon what I've learned about oils over the years.

I am not too worried about it, all of the replies are very interesting. Even wandering from the why re 30W, within reason is fine, it provides good info and experience and thoughts behind all of it.

Thank you for the link on Lubrication 101.

Don't stop now.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

RBHarter, I don't think there is anything new under the sun and agree with your comments.
We tend to overthink this stuff.
Your comments about abrasive dust (grit) mixed with grease are spot on. You can make a valve grinding compound if you are not careful.

Having spent a lot of time on the east coast, including south Florida and the mid-atlantic, I can honestly say that RUST is a bigger enemy in my world. You can watch ferrous metal rust in Virginia.

The "magic", "New and Improved", "miracle lubricants" are all over hyped and over priced.

 

[Jeff H]

Not to get too technical here, but I think that putting SOMETHING on it and keeping it CLEAN will do about all most of us need.

No criticism of the education some of you have earned over the years and it IS interesting.

I've seen so many presses sitting in corners of garages, covered in cobwebs, dust, dead bugs, chicken poop and RUST, and the owner would whisk over it with a dirty rag and start cranking. "Yeah, the edge of the bore hole for the ram knocks that rust right off 'er right quick!" I have always wondered how long one of those guys' presses actually still works right.

The presses I grew up with were cast iron and steel, kept clean and oiled LIGHTLY a couple times a year. They're still going. My own first press was aluminum with a steel ram. I questioned the wisdom of that and was reminded by the very man I felt I needed to make an excuse to (my dad) reminded me that many gasoline engines have aluminum bores and steel rings and probably cycle more times in an hour than I'd ever cycle that press in my life. Hmmm,... maybe engine oil makes sense after all.

I'm still wiping the ram and entry/exits of the bore a couple times a year and apply ONE DROP of the original Break-Free CLP to the ram. I might need to put a drop on the pivots once a year or so. This never gums up on me and seems to work just fine. I think this press is 33 years old now? I tried to wiggle the ram a week or so ago when I dismounted it to empty the spent primer reservoir. No wiggle, so if my cheap press was poorly aligned when new, it still is.

I'm not demeaning the intellectual effort on the topic and I still read it all with great interest. All good stuff.

 

[bruce381]

45 years formulating auto and industrial lube and most of what is said here is right a press only needs a light film of about anything to lube and protect it a semi auto is more problematic. If I can make a short answer to any question go ahead. Dillon wanted to prempt any of the WD40 lubes being sprayed on since they will dry out and get sticky so they went with lowest denominator any 30 wt.

 

[bruce381]

OH yeah the GLEN guy has about 3/4 right and about 1/4 WRONG.

 

[Snakeoil]

OH yeah the GLEN guy has about 3/4 right and about 1/4 WRONG.

Who or what is "the GLEN guy"?? Do you mean Grant, the guy who wrote the article in the link?

 

[Snakeoil]

45 years formulating auto and industrial lube and most of what is said here is right a press only needs a light film of about anything to lube and protect it a semi auto is more problematic. If I can make a short answer to any question go ahead. Dillon wanted to prempt any of the WD40 lubes being sprayed on since they will dry out and get sticky so they went with lowest denominator any 30 wt.

I use CENPECO oils in my vintage bikes where appropriate. I also have a relatively modern (manufacture, not design) Russian rig that came with a bottle of snakeoil that the manual said to add to every oil change. This was a first for me. Never saw an OEM recommend an additive before. So, because I knew the distributor for CENPECO, I asked if I could talk to a petroleum engineer. I got a name and number and called him. Nice guy, very willing to answer my questions. He'd never heard of this particular snakeoil. It was a Rislone product called Hyperlube. So, I then asked about additives in general, specifically zinc additives for flat tappet engines. He said he's seen some that actually degraded the oil it was put into rather than enhance it. I asked him for his generic opinion on oil additives. His answer was something like this.

"If I could buy some other company's additive to put in our oil to make it better, rather than spend huge sums of money doing research and testing, don't you think that I'd just buy the additive and put it in our oil?"

The point he made was loud and clear.

 

[462]

Presses, dies, guns are lubricated or wiped down with automatic transmission fluid, and it's what makes Ed's Red red.

If a grease is required it's RIG, except Lubriplate for the Garand.