Lyman 311413

[Ben]

This bullet may be one of the most controversial cast bullets in the .30 cal. line up.
Damned by many, praised by a select few.

I'm in the later group.......... I've learned that this one has a velocity ceiling of about 1650 fps. If you stay below that figure you'll have a happy marriage with the 413'

After WW II, because it looks a little bit like an M-2 ball round, many handloaders shot the bullet at blistering speeds. It gained a poor reputation for accuracy from this crowd ( as would have about 97% of the other .30 cal. cast bullets that I know of that are going to be shot at 2,500 - 2,700 fps )

I have learned not to " Hot Rod " the 413' and in gas check and plain base forms, it is one of my favorite .30 cal. cast bullets. 16.5 grs. of 2400 with the 413' gas checked bullet in the 30-06 is often times a super accurate load.

Ben





Here it is in plain base, I shoot these around 1,200 fps with great accuracy.
I removed the g/c shank from this mold and turned it into a plain base .30 cal.mould.
It works GREAT ! !

 

[Rick]

Very impressive Ben.

You said your shooting the gas check version at 1650, I can see not trying for 2500 fps but how does it do at more conventional CB rifle speeds around 1800-1900 fps?

 

[9.3X62AL]

Your excellent photos answered my question concerning the uppermost lube groove......whether it could be filled with a Lyman 450-type sizer.

No experience with this bullet myself, I have avoided it due to commentary indicating a habit of nose slumping at higher speeds/accellerations.

16.0 grains of 2400 shoots a number of 30 caliber bullets quite well in 30-06 for me.

 

[Ben]

Very impressive Ben.

You said your shooting the gas check version at 1650, I can see not trying for 2500 fps but how does it do at more conventional CB rifle speeds around 1800-1900 fps?

At those speeds, ( at least for me ) I think the nose " slumps " .
Accuracy will head south in a hurry.
Someone else may step in and offer their own results
which may or may not correspond to my own ? ? ?

Ben

 

[Ben]

I'm not certain that the 311413 is for everyone, especially a beginner.

It is the kind of cast bullet that will respond properly if you have " all your ducks in a row."

 

[smokeywolf]

The 311413 w/GC on top of 16.2 grns of 2400 is what I started my boys out with in the 03 Springfield. It seems Ben, that you and I have and favor a few of the same Ideal moulds.

Not sure why the bullet won't go faster, but I've never read of anyone driving it faster successfully.

 

[dbh1956]

Great write up!
Thanks!

 

[Ben]

The 311413 w/GC on top of 16.2 grns of 2400 is what I started my boys out with in the 03 Springfield. It seems Ben, that you and I have and favor a few of the same Ideal moulds.

Not sure why the bullet won't go faster, but I've never read of anyone driving it faster successfully.

I feel that all cast rifle bullets that are spire point in
design have their velocity ceiling limits .

The old timers always said that " a spire point just won't shoot."

I have not found that to be true. However, they can be
a bit more finicky than round nose or flat point cast bullets.

 

[Winelover]

I had the same mediocre results with the 413's......had no choice but to push them faster than 1650 fps if I wanted them to cycle my AR-10.

I have since moved on to NOE's version of 311414 Spire Point and it does better than I expected at velocities require to cycle the AR. Boolit, as cast, weighs @ 150 grains depending on alloy. I have shot many sub 2MOA, 10 shot groups @ 100 yards, with many medium burners (H4895 to AA4350). Hard to find a powder, in that range that it doesn't like. Many groups would be sub MOA, if not for one shot opening the whole by an inch.

At this time, I can't supply actual velocities, as the muzzle blast is horrendous and PITA to set up a blast shield. Rick can attest to that.

 

[KHornet]

A number of years ago, I had Buckshot Hollow Point a 413 sing cav for me. Do as Ben recommends, and the results are about the same for both 06 and 308.

 

[Pistolero]

I only have limited experience with 311413, and only with moderate loads, but it has
been a good shooter for me, too.

Bill

 

[45 2.1]

At those speeds, ( at least for me ) I think the nose " slumps " .
Ben

Bullet noses don't slump Ben....... that's a misconception. What happens is this type of bullet doesn't have a large enough nose with a consequently shorter bearing surface, then what they say happens because it immediately miss aligns due to being kicked in the rear hard and not entering the throat straight. If you shot those in a tight bore rifle at high velocity, you would find out..... I did.

 

[Ben]

45 2.1

Thanks for the correction............

I'm not certain why the bullet doesn't do well at high velocity.
Guess I'm not smart enough to know exactly what is going wrong at those velocities.

Ben

 

[45 2.1]

Ben, there are several disciplines in cast shooting. Until you are involved in them all, you probably won't see what causes some of the problems in the one you're in, or the others. Methodology and particular bullets may not perform well in both or all, so each discipline has it's own requirements. Until one participates in a particular discipline, you usually don't see what's going on....... it's just a matter of experience and not much else.

 

[Ian]

Swiss K-31 I presume, Bob?

 

[45 2.1]

K11............. the K31 is now where as accurate as the K11 is. The French semi-autos also.

 

[KHornet]

I just noticed that I have an unaltered 413, and the 413 that Buckshot HP's for me a few years back. Probably bought it on ebay way back and forgot about it. So, think the next time I cast, will do some unaltered, and some HP's and see what the difference(s) may be with the different configurations down range. May also try the HP at a bit higher vol to see if it will stabilize.

 

[45 2.1]

Cast some up, load a dummy round.... majic marker the nose and front band up good and chamber it easily....... then extract it and see if it touches anything. If it doesn't, seat it out further until it does and see what touches. This design was done up by a lot of the older companies. I have a Lyman and B&M myself......dimensions vary a lot on these molds.

 

[KHornet]

Will do Ben! Both of these molds are lyman.

 

[frnkeore]

I have a little experiance with this bullet. I collected the molds for a while.

Most that aren't marked with a U or other small markings, will cast about .313/.315 (depending on alloy). I can only guess that Ideal wanted a daul purppose mold for both 30 & 303. I think that added to the accuracy failures in a lot of 30 cal rifles.

My first one, I got to use in my 8.15x46R and reamed the GC to make that a band at .315. The base band cast .315 and the rest of the bands .313 in 22/1 alloy (WW will cast within .0002 of 22/1, in this size range). I shot it breech seated in that rifle, with good success. I've since replaced it with a very large casting 308329 (GC also reamed to .315).

The one that I have that casts .312, I have shot in my .310 groove, 26" long barreled, Krag. 18.5 gr, gave me 1.5" groups with a Redfield rear sight.

8.15x46R groups are at 100 yds.

I haven't tried it at HV, as I think the bands are to wide for HV applications. The one marked EX S, cast .306.

Frank