Lyman 358156

[TomSp8]

Forgot I had this one in my auction lot. I saw it was a gc design so set it aside. I cast several of these this morning to check it out. The mold was very clean, almost appeared new. Cast really easy for me, was actually a joy! Afterwards, I measured it as cast and weighed it at 159 grains. However, the rear wide bands were about .360 and the two front narrow bands are .355. I was thinking to powdercoat these and size to .357 with no gas check in my .38 revolver. Thoughts? Accuracy is only for indoor 25 yards at 750 fps is velocities.

 

[Bret4207]

I can't assist at all with anything related to powder coating, but the GC designs that I have shot w/o GC weren't anything to write home about. When you say "only 25 yards" what size is your target? If you're shooting bullseyes you may well be disappointed and if silhouettes you might end up with a lot of ear and knee hits. Some guns and bullet combinations seem more tolerant of GC-less GC designs, other don't tolerate them at all. Shoot 'em and see!

I might have an extra .358 sizer so you can see if they shoot better. What kind of sizer are you using?

The 358156 is one of my most reliable designs, but that's with a GC and pushed to at least 1K usually. I've not put much time into shooting GC designs "low and slow".

 

[TomSp8]

Brett, I have been sizing these at .357, because I pin guaged all my cylinder throats at just under .357. This a S&W model 14-2. I am going to buy a .358 sizer to try soon as well. (This sizer was actually sizing them to 356.5 before opening it up a bit, and I may open it up another .0005.) I intend to have these cyl throats opened up to .358 in the future I hope. I have zero experience with gas checks. Im using a Lee push thru sizer, so I should be able add them if I wanted using it? I have a Blackhawk in .357 that Ive loaded commercial cast HyTek coated in at about 1300 fps with no leading. But I rarely ever shoot that one. I don't have a da .357 currently. I figured I'd set this mold aside for hotter loads in .357 for a future revolver, or lever rifle, but wanted to try it out. I've powder coated these and sized them, and will load them up like the previous RCBS bullet and see how they do. Maybe I'll get lucky.

 

[358156 hp]

Forgot I had this one in my auction lot. I saw it was a gc design so set it aside. I cast several of these this morning to check it out. The mold was very clean, almost appeared new. Cast really easy for me, was actually a joy! Afterwards, I measured it as cast and weighed it at 159 grains. However, the rear wide bands were about .360 and the two front narrow bands are .355. I was thinking to powdercoat these and size to .357 with no gas check in my .38 revolver. Thoughts? Accuracy is only for indoor 25 yards at 750 fps is velocities.

358156 can be a joy to work with, talk about a versatile design! The two front bands were intended to be undersized, and since it sounds like your cylinder throats are a bit undersized, this situation may very well end up in your favor. Go ahead and try your bullets without gas checks, sometimes it works well, some times it doesn't. Do try to size your bullets to the throat diameter for best results and don't be discouraged if the first test results aren't what you're hoping for. Just try a different approach and compare your results. My best results with gas check bullets have led me away from undersized bullets, but there's not much else you can do if your throats are undersized. At least until the throats are corrected, if that's even necessary. The usual recipe for success usually revolve around the throats being slightly over barrel bore diameter so the bullet, with it's attached gas check gets it's final sizing by the barrel.

Your casting looks really good, but the base looks like you may need a skosh more venting at the top of the blocks at some point. Do try a few more casting sessions before considering any alterations though. One little detail about slightly rounded bullet bases on gas check designs, if the rounded edge is minor and consistent around the whole bullet diameter, the gas check will probably take care of the situation.

Bob

 

[JonB]

I'd say give 'em a try (PC without GC) ...sometimes things work out, sometimes they don't.
...then report back with the results.

 

[JonB]

There are a lot of those 358156 Lyman molds out there. I stumbled onto one a older one few years ago, it didn't cast well for me, so I put it on the back shelf until I find a day to 'work' on it some
You might find that a Hornady GC is tough to install, if so, look for the older boxes of Lyman (or Ideal) GCs, they are thinner and might go on better, that's what I found with my mold anyway.

 

[RicinYakima]

You might find that a Hornady GC is tough to install, if so, look for the older boxes of Lyman (or Ideal) GCs, they are thinner and might go on better, that's what I found with my mold anyway.

Lyman made two styles of gas check shanks; up until the mid-1970's they used a tapered shank for their slip on checks, then when they quit making checks, went to the straight sided shank.

 

[358156 hp]

I don't have problems installing gas checks. I have a full set of gas check expanders, courtesy of our Benevolent Overlord.

 

[Bret4207]

Brett, I have been sizing these at .357, because I pin guaged all my cylinder throats at just under .357. This a S&W model 14-2. I am going to buy a .358 sizer to try soon as well. (This sizer was actually sizing them to 356.5 before opening it up a bit, and I may open it up another .0005.) I intend to have these cyl throats opened up to .358 in the future I hope. I have zero experience with gas checks. Im using a Lee push thru sizer, so I should be able add them if I wanted using it? I have a Blackhawk in .357 that Ive loaded commercial cast HyTek coated in at about 1300 fps with no leading. But I rarely ever shoot that one. I don't have a da .357 currently. I figured I'd set this mold aside for hotter loads in .357 for a future revolver, or lever rifle, but wanted to try it out. I've powder coated these and sized them, and will load them up like the previous RCBS bullet and see how they do. Maybe I'll get lucky.

Of course, forgot you had that tight Smith. Give'er a try and see how it shoots. The 156 is a great design for anything in 38/357. It's one of those "if I only had one" moulds IMO. Yeah, the GC is a pain and an expense, but when you want to shoot hotter loads they make life easier...a bunch easier sometimes! Plus, it's just a good shooting design IME.

 

[TomSp8]

Happy to say these shot great last night. PC'd and sized to .357, pushed by 3.2 gr of Bullseye. Medium-ish roll crimp. Very mild. At 25 yards, rested on the bench, iron sights and old eyes, had 7 of 10 within 1.5 inches and 5 of those making 1 ragged hole. This is a keeper. And this mold casts well for me, so win-win!
*And on a side note, shot my personal best in our indoor 25 yard .22 bullseye league.......so, win-win-win !

 

[Ben]

I don't shoot a lot of gas checked 38/357 cast bullets.
However, I'll hold onto this one so if I need 50 rounds of " full - tilt " 357 Magnums, I can count on this proven design to give me some nice cast bullets.

I'd like to know the age of this mould.
Notice the spelling of the address on the mould.

Ben

 

[Bret4207]

Happy to say these shot great last night. PC'd and sized to .357, pushed by 3.2 gr of Bullseye. Medium-ish roll crimp. Very mild. At 25 yards, rested on the bench, iron sights and old eyes, had 7 of 10 within 1.5 inches and 5 of those making 1 ragged hole. This is a keeper. And this mold casts well for me, so win-win!
*And on a side note, shot my personal best in our indoor 25 yard .22 bullseye league.......so, win-win-win !

Good for you! I've never been that lucky, but maybe those tight throats help. Never know till you shoot 'em and see!

 

[CZ93X62]

Lyman #358156 is my most-used full-tilt 357 Magnum bullet. Ray Thompson's other well-known (#429244) is my most-used full-tilt 44 Magnum bullet.

Both designs hail from pre-Magnum days, and both have ONE lube groove and TWO crimping grooves. This feature was meant to allow for more powder space in a 38 Special or 44 Special case in S&W N-frame or Colt New Service and S/A cylinders.

Specific to #358156, I have run it with accuracy to 1525-1550 FPS from my Bisley BH x 7.5". I have run it to 1900 FPS in my Henry BB, accuracy held OK for a levergun--1.75" to 2.00" at 100 yards. In the leverguns the #358156 will feed all right when seated into the topmost crimp groove, obliged my the short throating found in my BB and my bro-in-law's Marlin 1894.

My #358156 mould is from the early 1980's, and a GC expander is needed for Hornady checks on Lyman shanks. They get along a lot better after flaring. My own thoughts are that GCs get consideration somewhere between 1300 and 1400 FPS, but I'm not a coater (yet). I have never run a gas check-shanked bullet without a check, I want every advantage I can get.

ETA--I have another 'Thompson-esque' bullet design, #454490. Only one crimp groove, and one-and-a-half lube grooves. It has an unusual gas check shank design that gives more lube capacity in the area just above the shank before the rear drive band raises up (rebated shank? I dunno). It is a first-rate 45 Colt bullet in the Ruger BisHawk, I have run it to 1400 FPS with accuracy. 20 of those is about all I want, though. Recoil was exhilarating in my 20s and 30s. We grow too soon old and too late smart.

 

[KeithB]

I have several 358156 molds and yes for full tilt .357 loads it's a fine bullet. But I shoot very few full tilt .357 rounds of any sort, and gas checks are a PITA. I find the 358477 bullets work fine in .38s and .357s at the velocity I use them. I've thought about removing the GC base from one of my 358156 molds but not sure what I would gain for the work.

But it is a good bullet design and everyone should probably have one in their collection. I bet a HP version at magnum velocities would be a really devastating bullet.

 

[Ben]

I have several 358156 molds and yes for full tilt .357 loads it's a fine bullet. But I shoot very few full tilt .357 rounds of any sort, and gas checks are a PITA. I find the 358477 bullets work fine in .38s and .357s at the velocity I use them. I've thought about removing the GC base from one of my 358156 molds but not sure what I would gain for the work.

But it is a good bullet design and everyone should probably have one in their collection. I bet a HP version at magnum velocities would be a really devastating bullet.

I agree with everything you've said.
" Beagle " removed the gas check shank on a 358156. He said that it never shot very well after that .

????????????

Ben

 

[Walks]

I put 35,000+ #358156GC from a pair of 2cav molds over max 2400, between 1975 and 1987, thru a NM Blackhawk. Bought new in 1974, a 6 1/2" bbl. Some groups went as low as one holers at 25yds.
Never tried any lighter loads, except for some of those rather unique .38Spl cased loads that he spoke so much about. Nor have I tried without a gas check. Got the #358477 for light loads. I believe the #358156 without gas check would be a #357446.

 

[Bret4207]

446 would be pretty close. Using the 156 w/o a check is one of those "make do" things IMO. It's a fantastic bullet as is. So are a lot of PB moulds. If you only have one mould, I get using it w/o the check. I did that with the 311316 for years. But if you can swing checks or a PB mould, you get a lot more out of them IME.

I'm amazed it shot that well w/o a check. Might be the tight throats and the PC. I haven't done a thing with PCing, being far more concerned with finding primers, powder, lead, etc these days, but it has me interested. Seems pretty useful for making up for various deficiencies from what I read here.

 

[358156 hp]

My 357446s prefer to be pushed hard too. They have that big, thick base that seems to thrive on a big, hard kick. Interestingly, Ideal/Lyman didn't seem to allow the design variances in 358156 that they seemed to ignore with 358429 and 357446 cherries over the decades.

 

[TomSp8]

This is our indoor slow fire 25 yard target, the black is about 5 inches for reference. Again, the butt resting on the bench, iron sights, and old eyes. (Reading glasses for a sharp front sight, but a fuzzy black blob of a target) 6:00 hold as best I could with no adjustments, let em go where they will. 10 shots, pulled three high. Disregard the random .22 holes as it was a used target. I think the powder coating basically kinda turned it into a bevel base. But that's certainly good enough for me.

 

[Bret4207]

My 357446s prefer to be pushed hard too. They have that big, thick base that seems to thrive on a big, hard kick. Interestingly, Ideal/Lyman didn't seem to allow the design variances in 358156 that they seemed to ignore with 358429 and 357446 cherries over the decades.

I've thought the same thing!!! Works that way with some other moulds too. No rhyme or reason to it near as I can tell.