Lyman Mag 20 with Loose Internal Connection

Wiresguy

Active Member
I have a NOS Lyman Mag 20 that needs repair. The photo shows the problem. A pretty simple fix, and I do have the spade lug to make the repair.

BUT… My spade lugs are just the common ones and I have read that the proper ones for a repair of this type would be a special lug rated for high temperature.

I could just cut off the lugs and connect the 120v wire directly to the fiberglass wire as I don’t plan on opening this unit up again after it has been repaired.

Any suggestions for the safest way to proceed?

Thanks!
 

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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Unplug the terminal. Then with a small tapered punch, open up the crimp area. It was not crimped properly or the wire would not have slipped out. Just needs to be opened enough to re-insert the wire. Then crimp it WELL.

And to me, those terminals look like standard terminals to me.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Them are automotive ones. If you dont want to pay for the expensive ones, use the round terminal ones and bolt them together. Then use the heat resistant tubing to slide over the wires and connection. It looks like you have some on the wire already. But get one size bigger to fit over the connection. If you get some that will fit over the whole connection the spades will work for awhile. It will keep the heat off them so they don't get soft.
 

Wiresguy

Active Member
Thanks for the suggestions, fellas. Great video, CW!

I'll try to reuse the poorly crimped lug. The crimped area was just squeezed down on the wire, not at all like a great crimp with the Klein 1005 crimping tool. If I can get it opened up, that will be the route to go. And when it is finished, I will give a good wrap with 3M #27 glass tape.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
If it is never coming apart again, a couple of butt splice connections and Tom's hi-temp tubing would do the trick. Doubt any tape will stay stuck in that hot environment.

Not impressed with Lyman using those connectors. I bought a brand new Lyman furnace and it would not work. Sent it back and bought the RCBS. I wonder If it was those connections?
 
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Wiresguy

Active Member
I'm not familiar with the heat resistant tubing. Is that the same as heat shrink tubing designed for covering wire splices before using heat to shrink over the connection? Or is it something specific for resisting heat?

The 3M Scotch #27 is glass cloth electrical tape with a 3000v dielectric strength with a maximum operating temperature of 302 degrees F, with pressure-sensitive rubber thermosetting adhesive. It is designed as a heat-stable insulation for furnace and oven controls, motor leads, and switches.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
It is the white stuff in your pic. Like this stuff.

https://www.amazon.com/AUTOHAUX-Fib...refix=heat+resistant+tub,aps,142&sr=8-26&th=1

This type of glass tubing is what we used on the induction heaters for components that were in close proximity of heat to protect the wires. We wrapped the ends with something I forgot what it was. But it sounds like the tape you mentioned. And your right about the Klein crimpers. Best ones made. I never had a connector come apart using them. Nice deep single punch.
 

popper

Well-Known Member
re-use the lug the you have nope, re-crimping the old one, even with the proper tool doesn't work well. If used much, that lug will have gotten hot and corrode/heat hardened. Get a new tin plated steel spade lug. The heater wire is most likely NOT copper! Bullet auto lugs are not good for high temp.
 
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Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
The 3M Scotch #27 is glass cloth electrical tape with a 3000v dielectric strength with a maximum operating temperature of 302 degrees F, with pressure-sensitive rubber thermosetting adhesive. It is designed as a heat-stable insulation for furnace and oven controls, motor leads, and switches.
If the adhesive is thermosetting, then it will not melt in the presence of heat. And given the description, I think it might do the job. Not sure what the temp is where those connections are. But as you know, that furnace gets a lot hotter than 302F.

With an alias like Wiresguy, I would think you'd be teaching us about this stuff. ;)
 

358156 hp

At large, whereabouts unknown.
Unplug the terminal. Then with a small tapered punch, open up the crimp area. It was not crimped properly or the wire would not have slipped out. Just needs to be opened enough to re-insert the wire. Then crimp it WELL.

And to me, those terminals look like standard terminals to me.
They are just standard terminals. I rebuilt my MAG 20 7 or 8 years ago after a tiff with Lyman over sending me a damn replacement thermostat. They refused to send me one, and so I converted my pot to run off a PID full-time. In the process I replaced every electrical connector in it, and a good portion of the wiring. A butt connector will serve you well there, but in the spirit of oneupsmanship, and a fit of pique, I took the connector out of the nylon sheath which I replaced it with heat-shrink tubing. Now it's easier to simply buy butt connectors with heat-shrink tubing at the hardware store. Just watch your wire routing, and make certain to replace all the fire wool insulation. Snakeoil is correct, unless it's wadded up in a little ball, you should be able to reuse your connector if need be.
 

Wiresguy

Active Member
Thanks for the replies and suggestions.

The old terminal was not reusable. I found a quality replacement and crimped it into place.

I checked the other terminal on the zip cord and it also was not crimped properly, with the wire being loose inside the crimp area. A proper crimp with the Klein tool fixed that.

Powers on and heats up!
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
Loose connections like that can burn up an appliance. It draws more current and heats up. The more it heats up the more current it draws. Its how electrical fires start. Good thing it just fell apart on you.
 

Tomme boy

Well-Known Member
can't blame chine for building something that the components were spec'd by someone else. They are building thing exactly what the American companies tell them too.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
can't blame chine for building something that the components were spec'd by someone else. They are building thing exactly what the American companies tell them too.
I think he's talking about the crappy crimp. And don't think that the Chinese are not capable of ignoring specs. Remember the dog food that was killing dogs. I doubt that the company that spec'd the food included melamine in the recipe. Same for lead paint in kids toys.

There is no supervision in the Chinese plants unless the US company that put it there puts people there. And if they eventually replace the US folks with local Chinese folks, all bets are off. I know, I've been there and done business there. We in this country have no conception of how things are done over there.
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
that spec thing is true for sure.
you pretty much have to specify 'or better' in big words right up front, and then have some one standing there at every point to make sure.
it ain't just the chinese though.

back when i was screen printing the owners decided they could do better with discount shirts from a plant they invested in down in old mehico.
we got stuff stretched out diagonally, one sleeve smaller than the other, collars sewed on inside out, and most of the time about half the amount of the order placed made it to the warehouse.
this put the two brothers in a tough spot cause they owned most of the factory and were getting screwed by themselves.
to make matters worse it was coming into busy season where the big national orders were coming in and the 4th. shift was due to be ramped up to meet the demand.
what do ya do?
well you close down the plant ripping you off at every chance and go back to a reputable company with your hat in your hand, your check book to pay the higher prices that sent you down the other path to begin with, and a bottle of catsup to help the crow go down easier.
plus now you gotta splain to your employees why you froze their pay increases for the last year, and the next one while you figure out how to get back on an even keel again.