Me too! HP'ing a Lee mould without proper tools

Ian

Notorious member
I wanted to experiment with hollow-point bullets in my .458 Socom AR-15 to see if I couldn't improve upon the subsonic lethal factor. Mastadons are out of season and pigs are in, so knock-down power is more important than raw penetration. Before spending a lot of money to have a good custom mould made and then hollow-pointed the Lee 500-grain RF two-cavity seemed a good place to start. Following what several others have reported I HP'd one cavity. First I did it with a 1/4" drill (and because I have a .250" chucking reamer) to match the original meplat. Tests showed the abruptly-round ogive wouldn't allow it to open up well, so I went to 5/16". Unfortunately no chucking reamer, so I drilled the hole and of course it's rough and oversized, but it works. Made the spud out of a brand new but too cheap to dare use bit that came "free" in a kit of some sort. Drill stop out of a Ryobi bit kit worked perfectly, as did a spare screw from a light fixture install kit.

Blue powder-coated bullet is a solid for comparison.

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The insides and pin:

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Couple of recovered test bullets fired at ~1000 fps. The wadcutter w/nose fragments was fired into a line of water jugs (hard clear plastic ones with screw on caps) and it went completely through six of them, completely exploding the first one and leaving the nose fragments inside and about the remains. The other jugs had neat holes poked through them and only #2 & #3 had their caps blown off. The slightly mushroomed bullet was fired through a tight roll of damp carpet (about 20 layers) and then into a row of the same water jugs, it went through four of them and popped out the side, found it on the ground about three feet away from where it exited. Not extremely scientific testing but what I had to work with on short notice.

100_4515.JPG

Now I have a better idea of what will and won't work. The last iteration of this shortened the bullet enough that now the case shoulder gets dinged by the locking lugs of the barrel extension when chambering, so if I design a bullet for this it will be more of a WFN and have almost as long of a nose as the Lee solid. It's very interesting what very slight changes to bullet profile will do both to feeding and to point expansion, and I'm glad the price of tuition to that class was only $20 and a couple of afternoons tinkering with stuff I had laying around.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
That looks like it worked well. The piggies won't be pleased at all.

I really like how the cup nose allowed expansion and fragmentation but left a shank long enough to ensure good penetration.
 
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Ben

Moderator
Staff member
Ian,

Bravo ! !
Excellent work and final outcome.

Ben
 
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S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I keep thinking I want to try a home hollow point conversion, finding the center point is whats got me. Straight edge on the outer edge of the drive bands, and then split the difference? How did you arrive at the center Ian?
 

Ian

Notorious member
I used a needle file to cut a vee groove on center with the cavity across the face of each block. I used the circular machine marks in the nose as a guide (with flashlight and magnifier it's easy to see "center"). Once I had two even, straight grooves that appeared identical with blocks closed to check I switched to a round needle file and worked them until I had a round hole, about 1/8" diameter. Then I locked the mould in a drill vise, level and square with the bit, and started running drills through the hole, turning the chuck by hand and using quality cutting oil. Once I got within 1/64" of .250" I switched to the chucking reamer, set it all up again, and turned the reamer through the mould by hand. All the drill press is for is feeding depth and keeping the drills and reamer from wobbling around.

The Lee aluminum extrusions are very gummy and soft, so use a good cutting oil like Tap Magic or CRC cutting oil and clear chips a lot more often than you think you need to or you'll get galling and smears.
 

Ian

Notorious member
I really like how the cup nose allowed expansion and fragmentation but left a shank long enough to ensure good penetration.

I was surprised how much metal it lost, but those jugs were made of very thick and hard #5 plastic (polypropylene I think, not milk jug type HDPE material) so at full speed metal even past the base of the HP cavity was lost. Still, a full-wadcutter shank punched well on through and made holes, probably would have gone through two medium pigs. After slowing down in the carpet, the second HP barely opened up when hitting the jugs, so I think what this shows is two extremes of how the bullet will perform and I think it did well enough in both tests. I'd like to use a weaker, more malleable alloy but at bumping 30K psi before the bullet is fully in the barrel with 12-gauge powder and that heavy bullet to get moving with no gas check, there are limits to how weak I can go with the alloy and not have severe gas cutting. What I have here is clip-on WW plus 1.5% added tin and a couple pounds of soft-ish scrap thrown in, air cooled, and it's barely tough enough to withstand being shot in this system.
 

Brother_Love

Well-Known Member
Great work! I HP'ed a Lee 35 cal 200 gr for my 358 Win. I used drill bits only because that is all I had. I am not familiar with a chucking reamer, please educate me.
Thanks, Malcolm
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I used a needle file to cut a vee groove on center with the cavity across the face of each block. I used the circular machine marks in the nose as a guide (with flashlight and magnifier it's easy to see "center"). Once I had two even, straight grooves that appeared identical with blocks closed to check I switched to a round needle file and worked them until I had a round hole, about 1/8" diameter. Then I locked the mould in a drill vise, level and square with the bit, and started running drills through the hole, turning the chuck by hand and using quality cutting oil. Once I got within 1/64" of .250" I switched to the chucking reamer, set it all up again, and turned the reamer through the mould by hand. All the drill press is for is feeding depth and keeping the drills and reamer from wobbling around.

The Lee aluminum extrusions are very gummy and soft, so use a good cutting oil like Tap Magic or CRC cutting oil and clear chips a lot more often than you think you need to or you'll get galling and smears.

A different approach than I was thinking. If the cavities were centered in the blocks it would be simple, but mine aren't. This is a Lyman single I'm looking at.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Nice work! I thought l1a1 had a doggy door at his shop so you could sneak in & machine till your hearts content.:D
 

Ian

Notorious member
A different approach than I was thinking. If the cavities were centered in the blocks it would be simple, but mine aren't. This is a Lyman single I'm looking at.

One cavity is cut deeper in the block than the other, or cavity centerline not equidistant from the block edges as measured on the open face?

With a triangle file and then a small round file you can put the pilot hole anywhere you like, even if it's deeper in one block than the other, just so it's concentric with the bullet cavity. It's fairly simple to eyeball the center of each bullet point in the cavity, and you can correct as you go with the files. Even after running the first drill through the pilot hole (start small) if it walks you can correct it with a round needle file and go up a drill size to make it round again, I've used this trick a number of times to keep holes exactly where I wanted them as I increased drill sizes incrementally. When in doubt you can always stop and cast a bullet using the current drill shank size as a pin, just barely stuck up into the cavity, and see if you can spin the bullet in the cavity with the pin and the blocks closed. If you can't, it's likely a little bit off center.

Great work! I HP'ed a Lee 35 cal 200 gr for my 358 Win. I used drill bits only because that is all I had. I am not familiar with a chucking reamer, please educate me.
Thanks, Malcolm

You're one of the ones who inspired me to try this, thank YOU!
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
I happened to have this mould out in the pickup, it's an Ideal branded instead of Lyman, not that that matters. The cavity is .010 from center front to back, I don't think the block halves are different.

I think I'll try this when I have some time to spare, between working and the farm it's easier some times than others.