F
freebullet
Guest
I happened to notice the new optima v2 muzzleloader handgun. I'm interested in hearing thoughts and experiences on the subject. Any other muzzleloader handguns worthwhile for deer hunting?
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Greetings
Another Ruger OA shooter here. Loaded with 4F ( I called Ruger) and a RB it will pass through the chest of large east ILLinois doe at 23 yards. Considering a 220 grain cast bullet over 4F for busting the shoulders or backbone next time north. Tracking deer for any distance anymore just is not much fun.
A 3rd model Colt Dragoon (replica) loaded with 3F will do the same. Bit heavier and longer though.
My next choice would be a Howdah two barrel. A caliber 60 ball will easily go through a corn cruncher. The river bottoms I hunt offers up close shots so the smooth bore is no issue.
Mike in Peru
Another Ruger OA shooter here. Loaded with 4F ( I called Ruger) and a RB it will pass through the chest of large east ILLinois doe at 23 yards. Considering a 220 grain cast bullet over 4F for busting the shoulders or backbone next time north. Tracking deer for any distance anymore just is not much fun.
A 3rd model Colt Dragoon (replica) loaded with 3F will do the same. Bit heavier and longer though.
My next choice would be a Howdah two barrel. A caliber 60 ball will easily go through a corn cruncher. The river bottoms I hunt offers up close shots so the smooth bore is no issue.
Mike in Peru
F
freebullet
Guest
I'd have to look into ballistics on those. We have to use 45 cal or larger and it must deliver 400ft lbs at 50 yds for Nebraska muzzleloader season.
While not a conventional pistol the optima looks like something I could legally use. It is supposed to handle a 100gr charge. I'm thinking 50-75gr under a 200 - 300gr boolit would make a dandy 50-60 yd deer gun. Maybe with a dot scope, I have a hard time with open sights past 30yds anymore.
While not a conventional pistol the optima looks like something I could legally use. It is supposed to handle a 100gr charge. I'm thinking 50-75gr under a 200 - 300gr boolit would make a dandy 50-60 yd deer gun. Maybe with a dot scope, I have a hard time with open sights past 30yds anymore.
You wouldn't hunt deer with ANY handgun, mostly out of fear of actually hitting one!
With the right shot I would have no issues with a healthy load in a ROA at short ranges, like 25 yards. Hunt like a bow hunter and it all works fine. Get in the cover and treat it like hand to hoof combat.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Howdy KHornet
If you hunted the river bottoms where I get to thwap corn crunchers you would consider handguns. My longest shot is 33 yards with a 58 Zouave. One was 4 yards. That was when I went back to a recurve. First deer I shot with smokeless was about 22 yards with a 375 Supermag Dan Wesson. Oh by the way... ILLinois does not trust us with a cartridge rifle. But even if they ever do... Why cumber myself with that when a revolver will do the job just fine in an East ILLinois river bottom.
Mike in Peru
If you hunted the river bottoms where I get to thwap corn crunchers you would consider handguns. My longest shot is 33 yards with a 58 Zouave. One was 4 yards. That was when I went back to a recurve. First deer I shot with smokeless was about 22 yards with a 375 Supermag Dan Wesson. Oh by the way... ILLinois does not trust us with a cartridge rifle. But even if they ever do... Why cumber myself with that when a revolver will do the job just fine in an East ILLinois river bottom.
Mike in Peru
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Well, I use .454 or .457 swaged balls in my ".44 Colt" replica and while I never chronoed it, online
reports are that with a heavy load of Pyrodex you can exceed 1000 fps. I imagine that
with 777 it would be possible (reasonable??) to exceed that. A .457 ball weighs 143 gr,
so to get 400 ft- lbs, you need 1123 fps........ doable but on the edge. Conical bullets are
heavier but infringe on powder space, maybe OK with 777 since you have to download by
volume anyway. May be on the edge meeting the 400 ft-lbs spec, but I doubt that the game
wardens are going to chrono your loads.
I still think a well placed 140 gr .457 ball at 1000+ fps in the ribs would kill a deer cleanly at
25-35 yds. Mine are plenty accurate, say a 3" group for 6 balls or better at 25 yds.
reports are that with a heavy load of Pyrodex you can exceed 1000 fps. I imagine that
with 777 it would be possible (reasonable??) to exceed that. A .457 ball weighs 143 gr,
so to get 400 ft- lbs, you need 1123 fps........ doable but on the edge. Conical bullets are
heavier but infringe on powder space, maybe OK with 777 since you have to download by
volume anyway. May be on the edge meeting the 400 ft-lbs spec, but I doubt that the game
wardens are going to chrono your loads.
I still think a well placed 140 gr .457 ball at 1000+ fps in the ribs would kill a deer cleanly at
25-35 yds. Mine are plenty accurate, say a 3" group for 6 balls or better at 25 yds.
KHornet
Well-Known Member
Like Jim, spent a lot of time muzzle Loading, and competing with front stuffers. Did once hunt rabbits with an original cap and ball 36 colt, but that is the extent of my ML hand gun experience! No doubt that some of the big colts will kill deer within short ranges, as would Howda pistols. Enjoy it if you do it, just not my bag.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Muzzle loading, for me, extends the gun season, and in Arkansas, falls in mid October. Nice time to be out in the field and first crack at the larger bucks. Just a break in the bow season, actually. I might use a muzzle loading rifle, during the regular gun season but not a pistol. Leaves are off the trees by then and ranges are extended.
F
freebullet
Guest
Extends the gun season, yes our mz season is the entire month of December and, your last chance at antlers for the year.
I wouldn't call myself a handgun hunter. I have taken a few deer at short range with the 357. That was before cataracts. Since that was fixed I've been working on handguning skills. Not being able to change your eyes focal point has proven a challenging obstacle for me.
That hasn't stopped me hunting for handguns to go hunting with.
I wouldn't call myself a handgun hunter. I have taken a few deer at short range with the 357. That was before cataracts. Since that was fixed I've been working on handguning skills. Not being able to change your eyes focal point has proven a challenging obstacle for me.
That hasn't stopped me hunting for handguns to go hunting with.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Good morning
Re-read all this and I have to say muzzle loading was all our fore fathers had for 250 years of great hunting. Starting with matchlocks, some wheellocks and flinters they did right well. I can see no reason not to continue the practice today. First corn cruncher I popped was with a caliber 58 Zoauve and many more. Use flinters now from crow to bean eaters and never felt handicapped. I do hunt river bottoms were my furthest shot is 33 yards. Set the fur on fire of a doe once as she walked by my ground blind looking for the apples she smelled rubbed into my cammo.
At the average 10 yard shots I take a Ruger Old Army has all the power a bean eater needs with good bullet placement. If I can do it... anyone who practices can.
Mike in Peru
Re-read all this and I have to say muzzle loading was all our fore fathers had for 250 years of great hunting. Starting with matchlocks, some wheellocks and flinters they did right well. I can see no reason not to continue the practice today. First corn cruncher I popped was with a caliber 58 Zoauve and many more. Use flinters now from crow to bean eaters and never felt handicapped. I do hunt river bottoms were my furthest shot is 33 yards. Set the fur on fire of a doe once as she walked by my ground blind looking for the apples she smelled rubbed into my cammo.
At the average 10 yard shots I take a Ruger Old Army has all the power a bean eater needs with good bullet placement. If I can do it... anyone who practices can.
Mike in Peru
RBHarter
West Central AR
I've met several folks that hunt with Walkers .
They shoot a RB over I think they said 60gr of FFFg or a 200gr conical over 50 gr . Those make for some formidable high stepping loads .
Of course I'm out in the far west our legal requirement is for at least 24 caliber with a minimum case length of that of the Remington 44 mag. In an odd twist that makes a large number of pistols which are completely inappropriate legal and excludes a few that should be allowed . As for BP hand guns they are not allowed but I'd bet there is a manipulation of the rules if a person wanted to use a 45 cal London tower style with a 24" bbl.
They shoot a RB over I think they said 60gr of FFFg or a 200gr conical over 50 gr . Those make for some formidable high stepping loads .
Of course I'm out in the far west our legal requirement is for at least 24 caliber with a minimum case length of that of the Remington 44 mag. In an odd twist that makes a large number of pistols which are completely inappropriate legal and excludes a few that should be allowed . As for BP hand guns they are not allowed but I'd bet there is a manipulation of the rules if a person wanted to use a 45 cal London tower style with a 24" bbl.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Howdy RB
Those open long distances would be far and tough with a BP revolver. I can understand the "having to live within restrictions" of laws. IlLLinois still says no to long cartridge guns but it is OK to fire a caliber 45 muzzle river or larger at deer not to mention revolvers with 3 inch cases. Crazy and beyond comprehension.
Never owned a Walker but Dragoons have been used. They will do the job up close. 60 grains of 3F is a right powerful load. The longer barrel of the Walker would kick the velocity up a notch. Those old "long barreled dragoon" muzzleloaders in caliber 60 would be an interesting "long shot" pistol if they were rifled.
Mike in Peru
Those open long distances would be far and tough with a BP revolver. I can understand the "having to live within restrictions" of laws. IlLLinois still says no to long cartridge guns but it is OK to fire a caliber 45 muzzle river or larger at deer not to mention revolvers with 3 inch cases. Crazy and beyond comprehension.
Never owned a Walker but Dragoons have been used. They will do the job up close. 60 grains of 3F is a right powerful load. The longer barrel of the Walker would kick the velocity up a notch. Those old "long barreled dragoon" muzzleloaders in caliber 60 would be an interesting "long shot" pistol if they were rifled.
Mike in Peru