My Ruger .357mag. BH & RCBS 158gr. Keith CB's

Maven

Well-Known Member
Last week I took my Ruger BH to the range for a bit of recreation, but was unpleasantly surprised when I examined my targets: I could have done better with a shotgun! The bullet was the RCBS 158gr. Keith copy (plain base), sized to .359" over 5.8gr. of Unique. Half of the loads were taper crimped; half were roll crimped, which wasn't easy given the narrow crimp groove on that CB (more on taper crimping below). After factoring in the poor lighting conditions (sun directly on and later, to the right of the front sight)*, and not having fired the BH for awhile, I wondered whether those CB's were a tad undersized. (Btw, they are very accurate when sized to .358" in my S & W Mod. 10 over 4.4gr. of Unique.) When I got home I slugged the cylinder throats and forcing cone and was surprised to learn that they accepted .359" CB's with minimal - moderate effort. As I happened to have a NIB .360" H & I die, I thought I would at least give the larger diameter, .360", a try.

Fast forward to a few days ago. Having cast and sized the new lot of Keiths to .360" (tumble lubed them), I trimmed the brass to a uniform length (1.27"), and reloaded them with 5.8gr. of Unique, taper crimping half and roll crimping the other half as before. I'm happy to report that the BH was much happier with the .360" dia. CB's than the slightly smaller, .359" ones. In addition, and this may be contrary to revolver reloading wisdom, the taper crimped loads grouped more consistently and more accurately than their roll crimped counterparts. There was no sign of bullet movement with the taper crimped rounds either.

I should add that all shooting (92 rounds/session) was done at 25 yd. with the revolver butt rested on my [rear] rifle bag, which is how I always shoot handguns. The target was a 3" x 3" square set at 45 deg. with 3/8" wide black sides. The primers were small pistol Mag Tech, seated with a Lee hand primer. Lastly, the somewhat odd charge of Unique, 5.8gr., is what my Lyman pistol powder measure rotor consistently throws.

Although the RCBS 158gr. Keith mold casts beautifully, it is only a 2 cavity and is heavy to boot. I.e., it takes awhile (and a tired left arm!) to amass a large enough pile of CB's to feed the BH. OTOH, I have a Lee .358-TL SWC 6 banger, which weighs less than the RCBS mold, casts easily, but the CB's are only .358" in diameter: The S & W Mod. 10 loves them, but they're too narrow for the Ruger. I was looking around on E-Bay, Arsenal Molds, and NOE for a suitable mold, i.e.., one which drops a .360" or slightly larger CB when it occurred to me that I could "beagle" the Lee 6 cavity SWC mold. I beagled both sides of the mold and was soon rewarded with .363" - .364" dia. CB's. When they cooled, I promptly sized them to .360", and a few to .358" and am happy to report they look great. I.e., the "micro bands" although reduced, were neither smeared nor eliminated. In fact, they've been tumble lubed and are now drying and look "normal." The proof will be in the shooting, but I won't get to that for several weeks.

Thought you'd like to know.



*Our bermes and firing line are oriented so that we shoot to the southeast, which means into the sun at certain times of day and in mid autumn - early spring. While the warm sun is a blessing on the colder days, it makes shooting with open sights quite difficult.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Being new to loading straight wall cartridges, how do you know a proper crimp, too much or to little. I am beginning to wonder if maybe I tend to put a little too much. Is it just a feel a guy needs to develop? Just enough to grip well and no more?
 

KHornet

Well-Known Member
I go by looks and feel. I want just a little visual roll, very little. And the trick is the first load and setting the die.
 

gman

Well-Known Member
When I'm roll crimping I want just enough to see the roll. To me, case neck tension is more important than just a heavy crimp.
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
Looks and feel work well, but I get there by screwing the seater die down in 1/4 turn increments until I like what I see.
 

Brad

Benevolent Overlord and site owner
Staff member
Too much can cause the case wall to buckle a little. This creates a bulge below the crimp. That bulge can cause chambering issues and it also reduces neck tension.

I too use a trial and error method. Once the case mouth is turned in it is done. Better too little than too much.
 

S Mac

Sept. 10, 2021 Steve left us. You are missed.
Thanks guys. I haven't bulged any cases, but still think I'm crimping a bit more than needed. Just need to experiment.
 

Maven

Well-Known Member
Just returned from the range after testing the beagled Lee 358-SWC-TL v. RCBS Keith 158gr. SWC, with sized to .360" and seated over 5.8gr. Unique: the former were roll crimped, the latter taper crimped. Btw, I used new, Starline .357mag. brass for the Lee CB's. The result was pretty clear that the Ruger BH shot the RCBS Keiths more accurately than the Lees. To put it more succinctly, there was greater dispersion and fewer 3-in-almost-the-same-hole groupings with the Lees than the RCBS'. Now I've got to take a heat gun to that mold and remove that A/C duct tape!
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
The main need of a crimp on revolver cartridges is to prevent the bullet from pulling forward under recoil. Consistent and enough neck tension is what will get the powder burning consistently. Here are the results of crimp testing I did several years back. 5 crimp tests with different crimps from none to heavy. This should give a good idea your crimp should give on revolver loads. Note the velocity extreme spread, average velocity and standard deviation with all crimps.

Crimp Tests

FA 357 Mag 9”

RCBS 180 GC Silhouette @ 192 gr. (WW HT @ 18 BHN)
16.0 gr. H-110 <this is a Freedom Arms ONLY load>
Winchester brass
CCI 550 primer
Temp 70 Humidity 38%

All chrono tests 10 shots

1>
My normal profile crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1518
S.D. 9

2>
Roll crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized
E.S. 30
A.V. 1520
S.D. 9

3>
No crimp, second firing of WW brass, Carbide die sized, very slight bell
E.S. 30
A.V. 1528
S.D. 9

4>
Light profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only
E.S. 26
A.V. 1532
S.D. 8

5>
My normal profile crimp, virgin WW brass, not sized, not expanded, slight bell only
E.S. 26
A.V. 1536
S.D. 8
 
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9

9.3X62AL

Guest
Yes--VERY.

I darn-sure wouldn't run the 180 grain/16.0 x H-110 in a K-frame 357. That's Blackhawk country, by the ZIP Code I read.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
I darn-sure wouldn't run the 180 grain/16.0 x H-110 in a K-frame 357. That's Blackhawk country, by the ZIP Code I read.

Your absolutely correct Al, this load was used in a Freedom Arms revolver. I've never owned a K-frame so I'm not sure what the cylinder length is but I would think it's too short for this bullet without seating to crimp over the front driving band making it an even hotter load. I should have included FA load only, I'll edit the post to reflect this. Thanks for pointing it out.
.
 
F

freebullet

Guest
We ran a 160 up to 16 in a bh. It was snappy but, not wild. I bet that's is indeed a stout load with a 180.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Actually in a 9 inch FA it's not nearly what you may expect. Keep in mind that all FA model 83's are built on the 454 frame and cylinder, the only difference between the 454 and even the 22 rim fire is the size of bore and chamber/throats. With the much smaller chambers of a 357 there is a lot of meat around those loaded rounds. The 454 was built for 60,000 PSI, even a worked up 357 load isn't close.
 
9

9.3X62AL

Guest
I haven't had the pleasure of firing any Freedom Arms revolvers, but from what I have read they seem like Ruger Blackhawks on steroids and better-toleranced. The Blackhawks on staff here (3 at the present time) and the Redhawk get the intrepid handgun work.
 

Rick

Moderator
Staff member
Al it's a shame you couldn't make it to the Extravaganza while I was still there, I would have gladly put an FA in your hands. You would be a changed man with a new love in your life. :D
 
F

freebullet

Guest
Al it's a shame you couldn't make it to the Extravaganza while I was still there, I would have gladly put an FA in your hands. You would be a changed man with a new love in your life. :D

And an empty wallet:D
 
9

9.3X62AL

Guest
Another addiction, like the Colt/S&W/Winchester levergun attractions. Right......just what's needed.