OK, I have a confession to make.....

[Glen]

...I'm not really much of a fan of round-nosed bullets for handguns. There I said it. Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike RN bullets, it's just that I generally like other designs better. The reason for my lack of interest dates back to my younger days, and a sunny summer afternoon when I shot a 3 lb cottontail with a .44 Special factory loaded 246 grain RN at about 700 fps. The shot was only about 20 yards, and I saw the bullet hit him center of mass, at the base of the ribcage, and then I saw him run about 100 yards to a well-hidden burrow to die. No hasenpfeffer for me that night. I learned to love the Keith SWCs in the years following this experience.

But sometimes only a RN will do. The man who taught me how to cast bullets was a former Marine sniper who served in Korea. In his mind there were 2 cartridges -- the .30-06 and the .45 ACP -- and then there were the "also rans" (some of which he liked, but they weren't in the same class as the '06 or .45). For the .45 ACP, there was only one load Reo loaded, the Lyman 452374 230 grain RN, loaded over 6.5 grains of Unique for about 850 fps. Yes, Reo loved RNs for his 1911s, and he always had a healthy supply loaded up, "just in case". In his memory I decided to cast and load some up, just to make some noise, have some fun, and remember an old friend. Sorry Reo, but I don't have any rum in the house, but I know that you will smile and chuckle to a heart-felt toast nonetheless, even if it is whisky. Salud, Kimosabe.

 

[Brad]

I doubt I own a round nose other than a 311291 and that one is an HP!
I have never cast a RN handgun bullet and have loaded less than 1 K including some jacketed.

Give me a rnfp most any day.

I find it interesting how some of our deepest seated memories were imprinted by those we learned from. Might explain why I like 2400 so much.

 

[freebullet]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Glen.

Round nose have their place but, not really for hunting in my book. I've loaded more lee 125rn than anything and, for paper plinking they work well. They fit a TON of throat designs. I really like spearmint'in hp's. They work just dandy for soft skin/small hunting. I've been learning more about flat point expansion and definitely see them filling more voids. Guess they all have a good use for something or other. Shootem all!

 

[waco]

I love the story. Thank you. I also load a lot of 225gr rn 45acp bullets. It seems like a real traditional bullet in the 45ACP.

 

[Pistolero]

Not a RN guy, either. The first cast bullets I ever shot were 325 gr SWCs in an original Remington 1863
rifled musket, .58 cal. This is the "lightweight varmint bullet" for that rifle, with a nice front shape about
like an H&G 68. A good friend who had recently mustered out of the Army introduced me to casting,
although with the minie bullet, there was no sizing or lubing other than smearing a dab of Crisco into the
hollow base just prior to ramming, so I only got a sketchy and partial intro - but enough to know that
casting your own bullets was possible. George is somebody I think of fairly frequently, he taught me a
whole lot when I was a teen, when he was about 10 years older with all sorts of interesting guns. Nambu,
Rem RB 7mm, GEW 43, Triplett & Scott .52 carbine, Remington .58 1863 rifle, a Virginia Dragoon .44 Mag single
action, S&W 1917 with half moon clips, Ortgies .32 ACP, and more. VERY interesting, and he was a skilled
machinist (US Army trained) and M60 door gunner on Hueys. We hunted turkeys, deer, rabbits and armadillos
together, and did a lot of fun shooting, reloading and more.

My first mold was the Lee 105 SWC for 9mm, and it worked great in my Browning HP, then and now.
Lee cake cutter system and hammer-thru sizing dies kept me in affordable ammo until my wife got
me a RCBS Lube-a-matic for Christmas years later. Hog heaven at that point. Casting for the Automag .44
was my first big-bore pistol -- Lee 215 SWC, which never was a very satisfactory one, but I knew so little at
that stage - could have been doing any number of ignorant things to mess it up.

Then I loaded something above a quarter million H&G 68 commercial cast bullets for IPSC
over 3+ decades of fairly serious competition. There were a lot of 429421s and H&G 503s in there for a
number of different .44 Mags, too. Even the .38s and .357s usually were and are fed SWCs, 358429s with
and without HP, and a bunch of Lee 38-158 RF - LBT style.

I believe I have a 358311, but don't remember ever actually using it. I have a 429 H&G RN, which I forget the
number for, again, I might have used it, but have no clear memory of it. I used a Lyman 452374 four cavity
mold for a while, but the lack of full diameter scoring holes convinced me that the equally reliable and slightly
cheaper to buy 200 SWC H&G 68 was THE projectile for the .45 ACP. The 452374 mold mostly gathers dust
now.

Nope, not a lot of RN bullets around here, either.

Bill

 

[Winelover]

RCBS 160 RN for 38 Special works great with speed loaders while practicing.

RCBS 125 RN for 9mm semi autos, again for defensive practice. Never a failure to feed in my bottom feeders.

 

[KHornet]

Have a few RN molds, Lee 102 and 125 for 380-9MM, a 225 lee for the Vaccaro, and
a single cav 358311 that Brad HP'd when he was learning his lathe. Not a bad looking
bullet.

Have a few RN rifle bullet molds, but then so does everybody else. My favorite
is the little 225438, in both as issued and in HP. On paper, cans, and clays, it really
doesn't matter much to me what they look like coming out the tube. However much
prefer SWC's on paper because of the nice clean holes from revolvers.

Paul

 

[fiver]

I haven't yet found a place where the rnfp doesn't work for me.
it might not make the prettiest hole in the paper but there is one there, and it's where I pointed the barrel when I touched the trigger.
it's also super effective on game.
I pretty much have a rnfp and a keith type or swc for all of my revolvers and such but I can use the rnfp in the semi's too so it's a whole ton easier to just make up a bunch of those and have them ready to go.
a good 225 rnfp will feed the revolvers and semi's and the lever guns all in 45 acp or 45 colt with no drama.
wrap some paper around it and it will cover light duty in the 45-70 too.

 

[RBHarter]

I had a similar experience with a cotton tail and a 38 special. Nice clean perfect round hole in and out . It didn't run but it wasn't a clean kill and there were "unpleasantries" . I wish the Lee 452-255 were a scale up of the 358-158 RNFP . I have to admit that the moon clipped 45-200s drop in better than the 452-255 or 454424.
The cotton tail soured me on a round nose and the only one I have is a 311291 also. The only reason I bought it is for an 03 that just refuses to play.

 

[smokeywolf]

Just about everything I have in the way of pistol bullets is either RNFP or SWC. I think if you're shooting round nose you better keep your velocity and BHN down.

 

[Cherokee]

RNFP or SWC here as well. Did load some RN in 38 way back when that was all I could get, before I started casting for myself.

 

[yodogsandman]

So, how would that RN penetrate on larger stuff like for bear defense? My older son Tom shot off 6 45acp rounds off over a 350 lb black bear last night while bow hunting on the ground. Closest range was 7 FT. He figured that it wasn't attacking him but, it was too close for comfort and the bear had huffed a warning twice. It couldn't smell him, the bear was upwind and had caught him moving. What if it did intend to attack him, though? He had commercial 230gr jacketed hollow points in both clips. So, what cast boolit would work best for that situation? A RN, round flat, trunicated?

 

[RicinYakima]

My major problem with HB in 45 ACP is that you have no idea in what direction the bullet is going to take once inside the skin. They deflect very easily. I carried the Hornady FMJ truncated cone bullet as long as they made them. RN pistol bullets are not like the 458 Lott with long sides that resist direction changes. Today in the auto I carry Remington Golden Saber 230 grain +P's, and in the S&W 625 Lyman 452423 and a hot charge of 2400. Just my opinion, you understand.

 

[fiver]

flat points are better at straight line penetration.
if you hit bone straight on, you have a good chance with any of them. [except hollow points]
if at an angle you want something more square to dig in.

 

[Ian]

I think the TC is probably the most reliable, do-all in an auto. I'll take any bullet in a .45 over a bow vs. Mr. Bear, though.

 

[yodogsandman]

Only the bow was legal to hunt bear with in NH. They deemed the .45acp as unsuitable to hunt with for big game due to it's power level. Of course, in a defensive situation, it's the best tool of the two if you have it. I think he showed great restraint for not shooting it.

Tom was just setting up his tree stand seat, at the time, just to sit on and had his back turned when the bear first huffed at him. The .45 was sitting on top of his seat and the bow was laying on the ground. He had taken it out of the holster so it wouldn't clank on the stand while getting it set up. When Tom turned around, the bear was coming fast from about 30 yards. I'm sure that if he had been all set up, that bear would have been legally bow shot.

In my own .45, the TC just out shoots the RNs. That's what I carry due to it's accuracy. The Lee 452-230 TC, Lyman 452374 and NOE 453-230 RN all shoot reliably. I haven't tried a RF yet.

 

[9.3X62AL]

I have a few RN mould designs on staff here. Most get used for SD range practice, but the Lee 230 TC is gaining ground in the 45 ACP for that venue. Both work well and shoot about the same in my pistols, so it's a "push".

For hunting work, my bullets get cast as Bruce B Soft Points, regardless of initial design.

 

[Pistolero]

TC or SWC will penetrate straightest. The 452423 Keith will feed in most 1911s, and would be a good choice for this
application. Well placed they will kill most black bears, although there are a few that have ranged up to over 800 lbs
and that is a LOT of muscle and fat to penetrate with a .45 ACP. A more normal 200-300 lb black bear should be
"stoppable" with a full mag of well placed .45 ACP SWCs or TCs, 230 gr or so, as hot as you can stand to load them.
I would start with 3 or 4 to the heart-lung area and then concentrate on the neck, if it is accessible, for a spine/base of skull shot.
Head shots can work, but are likely to be deflected.

Beware of black bear attacks. The overwhelming majority of the time they are afraid of people and not going to
hurt you if given a chance to leave. BUT, if they do attack they mean to kill and eat you. Griz on the other hand, in
the overwhelming majority of attacks are intending to teach you some manners in bear style for "getting too close to
my food or territory or cubs" - unfortunately they give us a "minor smacking around as a lesson in manners" and we
break a lot easier than another griz. Balling up and taking your licks usually works with griz, they usually stop after their
honor is satisfied, but this will NOT work with black bear, they don't do this "social attack"
stuff, they either run away or they plan to eat you. If they attack, you had better fight like you mean it, because he means it.

Bill

 

[Chris]

Beware of black bear attacks. The overwhelming majority of the time they are afraid of people and not going to
hurt you if given a chance to leave. BUT, if they do attack they mean to kill and eat you. Griz on the other hand, in
the overwhelming majority of attacks are intending to teach you some manners in bear style for "getting too close to
my food or territory or cubs" - unfortunately they give us a "minor smacking around as a lesson in manners" and we
break a lot easier than another griz. Balling up and taking your licks usually works with griz, they usually stop after their
honor is satisfied, but this will NOT work with black bear, they don't do this "social attack"
stuff, they either run away or they plan to eat you. If they attack, you had better fight like you mean it, because he means it.

Bill

Bill, that is true and well-said. I don't know about grizzlies but from what I read, so the following is about black bears:

I work in the woods and also hunt a lot, black bears have always concerned me. It's not the "get between the cubs and the mother" story everybody quotes, rather that black bears can be hungry/sick and stalk a poor forester cruising timber, or maybe a mom picking berries, or even worse your grandchild playing in the yard. If they wanted me, I would never see them or know what hit me no matter what weapon I was carrying. I'm not saying to be unarmed in black bear woods, but I am suggesting that they are a very able and silent predator against whom arms may/not be relevant. Respect the animal and the danger, in the woods we are not the top of the food chain. They are far more physically capable than we are... ever skin one and look at the musculature?

I don't know exactly what it takes to kill an attacking bear vis-a-vis penetration, muzzle velocity, etc. I killed one at muzzle range with a .35 Remington years ago that intended to and would certainly have killed me, this was in the woods hunting. Scared the crap out of me. I faced down a charge in the summer by a bear that took my garbage from my garage, it turned out to be a bluff but I had drawn a line at 16 feet and the bear turned and ran just about there. They aren't always afraid of us.

I know from having been in the woods that bears take a lot of lead. Who's to say what it takes for sure, but a bear with its dander up will absorb a lot just like a Russian boar. My wife blew a pound of meat off a bears' upper shoulder with a .358 Win., looked like hamburger spread on the snow. Tracked for all I was worth and never recovered the animal... and it was a small bear. They are tough.

There is a book all serious hunters should read: "Bear Attacks, their causes and avoidance" by Dr. Stephen Herrero. The statistics are very surprising, lot more black bear problems than most people think. Many, many black bear attacks.

 

[RicinYakima]

Luckily we have few black bears here in Eastern WA compared to our new cougar problems. About 20 years ago I was eating lunch by a high fishing lake in the Cascade Mountains, hunkered down out of the wind behind a log that had fallen into the lake, enjoying the scene and sunshine. When I opened my Coke can, I heard a snort and a black bear head peeked up over the log. Never heard him walk up, or make a sound and had no idea he was there. The bear just turned and walked away, he must have been full.