Reloading for 45 Auto Rim in S&W 1917
- Thread starter Elric
- Start date
Ian
Notorious member
It seems you are correct RB. I found some 4" stainless steel 625 barrels at Midway but not a lot else. I also discovered I don't have a 625, it's some sort of N-frame with a pinned barrel but the frame and crane bears a five-digit number and no model. The cylinder bears a six-digit serial number and S&W marks although the number doesn't match the frame and the bluing is almost a bronze-black color. It may have been re-bored from a .44 special, who knows. I need to do more research.
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Ian
Notorious member
Ok, I'm ignorant as dirt. After pulling off the abominable rubber stock I found the real serial number on the butt. I also found the Navy Arms New Jersey import address on the grip frame, and the faintest remains of the Brazilian seal with "1937" clearly stamped underneath. The cylinder serial number matches the frame and the crane/frame/sideplate 5-digit numbers all match so I know the crested side plate matches the rest.
So what I have is the remains of a rare Brazilian contract 1917, probably from the first shipment delivered in 1938 due to the low serial number (140xxx). It has a lanyard ring hole drilled but not tapped. The knob-shaped ejector plunger has been turned down to a cylinder and knurled.
At least now I know what this revolver is and can start looking for some sort of correct parts.
So what I have is the remains of a rare Brazilian contract 1917, probably from the first shipment delivered in 1938 due to the low serial number (140xxx). It has a lanyard ring hole drilled but not tapped. The knob-shaped ejector plunger has been turned down to a cylinder and knurled.
At least now I know what this revolver is and can start looking for some sort of correct parts.
RBharter,
That's the thing. Fancier and bulkier then mine, but Really nice. Except my cases fall out the bottom of the tube.
I also have a 3/8" dowel cut to 6" and the ends are rounded.
Labeled " Rogers .45ACP shell ejector " Patent Pending. It's always in my Shooting Box. The half and full moon clips reside in the Pistol Rug, that I keep My S&W 1937 in. The demooner tool too.
Got some 100 odd 1/3rd moon clips too.
That's the thing. Fancier and bulkier then mine, but Really nice. Except my cases fall out the bottom of the tube.
I also have a 3/8" dowel cut to 6" and the ends are rounded.
Labeled " Rogers .45ACP shell ejector " Patent Pending. It's always in my Shooting Box. The half and full moon clips reside in the Pistol Rug, that I keep My S&W 1937 in. The demooner tool too.
Got some 100 odd 1/3rd moon clips too.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I would be VERY tempted in a case like Ian's to have a 'smith make up a custom barrel about 6" long.
One of the deputies on our pistol team had a Model 28 modified to make a 45 Colt wadcutter gun in this manner. Truck axle barrel, Aristocrat rib, 4-step front sight, all the bells and whistles. He still has it. The idea was to use 45 caliber WC bullets to gain an advantage in line-cutting between scoring rings. It didn't really work out--he admitted that as the shooting wore on, fatigue from the increased recoil of the 225 grain WC bullets turned into "A Law Of Diminishing Returns". No, he won't sell it.
One of the deputies on our pistol team had a Model 28 modified to make a 45 Colt wadcutter gun in this manner. Truck axle barrel, Aristocrat rib, 4-step front sight, all the bells and whistles. He still has it. The idea was to use 45 caliber WC bullets to gain an advantage in line-cutting between scoring rings. It didn't really work out--he admitted that as the shooting wore on, fatigue from the increased recoil of the 225 grain WC bullets turned into "A Law Of Diminishing Returns". No, he won't sell it.
oscarflytyer
Well-Known Member
Ian - re-run/research your serial #. From my research, if it is a 5 digit #, it is 1918 gun/parts. Not sure about the low 6 digit #. But, irrc, the 1938 Brazilian Contract guns all had 2xxxxx numbers. The 1946 Brazilian Contract run had some leftover WWI/1918 guns/parts that Smith "found" in the warehouse! Easy way to recognize these is the 5 digit serial #. Mine is a 95xxx serial #, which dates it to 1918. (I do not recall any mention of lower 6 digit serial #s in the 1946 contract). Also, A lot of mu information on my gun came from the S&W forum - http://smith-wessonforum.com/
And Bret is correct on the lanyard ring. Mine is pinned, not threaded.
And Bret is correct on the lanyard ring. Mine is pinned, not threaded.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
I tried to make "heads or tails" of the info provided by Ian on his revolver via the Standard Catalog Of Smith & Wesson. As best I can tell from its text, Ian nailed its ID. The 'confiming' ID marks (related to date and lot) are mostly found on the barrel, but inspector markings and stampings on the receiver butt can narrow the timeline range a bit. SCSW can be a mite sketchy on nailing down details through no fault of the book's authorship, because S&W's production history is a mite sketchy. E.g., Ian's mention of the M-1917 receivers "discovered" by the company in a warehouse and incorporated into the Brazilian contracts. The definitive ID is the factory letter, based upon the serial number. In addition to the S/Ns Ian spoke of on the cylinder and frame butt, there are either complete or derivative/partial S/Ns on the barrel flat at the ejector recess, on the back side of the ejector star, and on the yoke. I am unsure on the cost of the factory letter these days; only one of my revolvers has this feature, which came with its gifting from the late Bruce Bannister. Its history is a checkered one, a lot of which I wrote about on another site. BIG THANK YOU goes out to "Nueces" at that site for his support and willingness to lend a hand on a project that ultimately lost traction. (The example is a pre-27 in 357 Magnum built in 1953). I mention it only to emphasize how much more specific info such a factory letter can provide on a given example over the generic info you can derive from SCSW or the S&W Forum.
Ian
Notorious member
Thanks for the input, the Standard Catalog is supposed to be the definitive source.
From more reading, mine is more likely from the 1946 run which was basically a scrounging and garbage disposal operation by S&W. The frame at the crane recess has the eagle and "S2" stamp, indicating WWI leftover, and the serial number is the lowest I've seen so far on a Brazilian contract revolver though I did see a 148xxx for sale. The SW forum had a good explanation of the random serial number WWI surplus frames popping up, there's no real record of the entire list that were exported, just a few definite ranges with a sprinkling of "floor sweepings" to make up the last bit.
This revolver already has an Aristocrat sight rail and ginormous bull barrel, but I don't shoot silywet and besides, I have a model 19 configured that way already. I'd like to make this one a shooter again since the barrel is bulged and loose in the frame, the crane hole is very wallowed where the cylinder pin passes through, and the added crane detent balls are a disaster.
I might set the barrel back and turn it down to a reasonable profile, weld on a boss for the base pin, replace the pin tip with a "doll head" from Numrich, and sort out some kind of front sight. Still mot sure if the frame is u-notched or flat topped with square groove, but it appears to have a 1917 frame so it shiuld be round. For $250 I could get a parkerized 5.5" NOS barrel, blue and fit it, replace the doll head, fix the other problems, and make it original-ish but I have no interest in spending that kind of money on a beater.
From more reading, mine is more likely from the 1946 run which was basically a scrounging and garbage disposal operation by S&W. The frame at the crane recess has the eagle and "S2" stamp, indicating WWI leftover, and the serial number is the lowest I've seen so far on a Brazilian contract revolver though I did see a 148xxx for sale. The SW forum had a good explanation of the random serial number WWI surplus frames popping up, there's no real record of the entire list that were exported, just a few definite ranges with a sprinkling of "floor sweepings" to make up the last bit.
This revolver already has an Aristocrat sight rail and ginormous bull barrel, but I don't shoot silywet and besides, I have a model 19 configured that way already. I'd like to make this one a shooter again since the barrel is bulged and loose in the frame, the crane hole is very wallowed where the cylinder pin passes through, and the added crane detent balls are a disaster.
I might set the barrel back and turn it down to a reasonable profile, weld on a boss for the base pin, replace the pin tip with a "doll head" from Numrich, and sort out some kind of front sight. Still mot sure if the frame is u-notched or flat topped with square groove, but it appears to have a 1917 frame so it shiuld be round. For $250 I could get a parkerized 5.5" NOS barrel, blue and fit it, replace the doll head, fix the other problems, and make it original-ish but I have no interest in spending that kind of money on a beater.
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CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
At some point you have to decide whether you are "Doing a restoration" or "Performing CPR at an autopsy". My batting average on such missions has been decent, but there are losses along with the wins, for certain.
SCSW is about as definitive as it can be, given the environment it tries to work within. Those factory letters are a lucrative enterprise in and of themselves, so the company and the Collector's Association are a bit coy about the subtleties and nuances. For my purposes, SCSW works fine.
NOS barrels are still around, eh? Good to know.
SCSW is about as definitive as it can be, given the environment it tries to work within. Those factory letters are a lucrative enterprise in and of themselves, so the company and the Collector's Association are a bit coy about the subtleties and nuances. For my purposes, SCSW works fine.
NOS barrels are still around, eh? Good to know.
Ian
Notorious member
I would much rather see a chemical de-rusting treatment and re-blue over all the pits than a lousy grind job and far to much enthusiasm while working a power buffing wheel. If it had been mine to do from the beginning I would have dunked it in a de-rusting solution, glass bead blasted it, filled the pits with Dura Fill, and finished with either matte Dura Blue or...don't hate me...a desert tan color.
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Ian
Notorious member
These yoke detents were NOT done well. One ball and spring exited stage left long ago and the other doesn't align properly with the detent so it forces the crane open a little bit.
Here's one possible solution to making this into a shooter, but good grief $450??? https://everygunpart.com/handgun-kits/smith-wesson-1917-revolver-blued.html
I'd almost rather put a full-lug stainless 625 barrel on it, sort out the cylinder latch, and call it a day.
Here's one possible solution to making this into a shooter, but good grief $450??? https://everygunpart.com/handgun-kits/smith-wesson-1917-revolver-blued.html
I'd almost rather put a full-lug stainless 625 barrel on it, sort out the cylinder latch, and call it a day.
Ian
Notorious member
Le Bulge:
It goes all the way around. Note the leading. The dip that the lower land makes is not an illusion, they all have that. I don't know if someone used hot loads trying to improve knock down power for shooting steel, or stuck a bullet and sent anither one after it. I have a 29-3 with an oem 10.5" barrel....and the same problem.
It goes all the way around. Note the leading. The dip that the lower land makes is not an illusion, they all have that. I don't know if someone used hot loads trying to improve knock down power for shooting steel, or stuck a bullet and sent anither one after it. I have a 29-3 with an oem 10.5" barrel....and the same problem.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Pinto or Saddle Shoe S&Ws. I saw a few of those in the 1970s, frame in contrasting color to cylinder and barrel.
Now that I have the PC 625 enroute, I am pretty excited about the possibilities with the 4"-barreled arm. Like my 686 x 4", the platform does a lot of things very well without beating the daylights out of its user. The 44 Special, 45 ACP/AR, and 45 Colt are GREAT chamberings for N-frame S&Ws.
ETA--Just got back from the toy emporium, and the 625 arrived earlier today. GORGEOUS, and runs as good as it looks (to the extent that dry-firing can show that). WRAP IT UP. DROS on 10/26, pick up on 11/5. All of the accessories should arrive within the next week, and I'll have time to load some AR brass with castings for its test drive to follow.
Now that I have the PC 625 enroute, I am pretty excited about the possibilities with the 4"-barreled arm. Like my 686 x 4", the platform does a lot of things very well without beating the daylights out of its user. The 44 Special, 45 ACP/AR, and 45 Colt are GREAT chamberings for N-frame S&Ws.
ETA--Just got back from the toy emporium, and the 625 arrived earlier today. GORGEOUS, and runs as good as it looks (to the extent that dry-firing can show that). WRAP IT UP. DROS on 10/26, pick up on 11/5. All of the accessories should arrive within the next week, and I'll have time to load some AR brass with castings for its test drive to follow.
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Charles Graff
Moderator Emeritus
Yep, the "stated purpose" of jeweling was so that the surface could retain oil longer. However, the reality was it was just cosmetic. I have a jig and all the equipment to jewel rifle bolts in my shop. Some day, I might haul them out an jewel a bolt, just for old times sake.