Ruger Blackhawk pawl hangup?

[Ole_270]

Been having trouble with the new Flattop 45 Convertible. About every couple hundred rounds or so the cylinder will hang up when the loading gate is opened to empty the cylinder. The latch on the bottom is open so about the only thing it could be is the pawl not retracting enough. I can pull the cylinder out of the frame and push the pawl back in it's slot, feels gritty when I do that. It's still operating fairly normally when cocking the hammer, just hangs up and won't allow me to advance the cylinder with the gate open. Tear down the action and clean everything and it smooths out fine for the next couple hundred rounds.
I polished the sides of the pawl in case there was some interference. I've started shooting some clp into the frame slot and running a pipe cleaner in behind and in front of the pawl after every shooting session and it's helping extend the time between problems, but hasn't fixed it completely. At this point I'm not sure if its dirt buildup in the pawl slot or in the spring hole that pushes against the pawl.
I'm not running mouse fart loads in this one, acp cases get mostly 5.5 Universal over 230 TC, Colt cases have been Green Dot and Universal over 255RF at roughly 850 fps. Colt cases have the Hornady Cowboy set resize die adjusted to just over half way down the case to help cut down on blow by.
I've had more trouble with long strings of acp cases than with the colt.
Anyone else had this problem?

Edit to add: new pawl spring and plunger on order just in case.

 

[DHD]

You've mentioned you've torn it down and cleaned it. I don't know if you have an ultra sonic cleaner available, but id tear it down again the next time it happens and dunk it in the U S cleaner and use nothing but hot water and a few drops of dawn. If it's a blued gun I'd spray it down with something lile EEZOX afterwards. If I didn't have a U S cleaner, I'd remove the cylinder and grips and spray the recoil surface down with a good cleaner and then do the EEZOX thing.

It really sounds like a burr in that part of the receiver or some gunk that gets built up, with the likelihood of it being more gunk related as it's not an "all the time" thing.

Just my opinion from far away....

 

[RBHarter]

Had a 100 yo Colt with a similar situation , grips off and dumped it in a cheap plastic cake box with a 1/2 gallon of CLP . Lots of dirt trapped in places that are just really not accessible manually . Cycle , flip , soak , repeat every couple of hours for 2 days .

 

[462]

Can't think of the nomenclature, off hand, but does your gun have that feature that allows the cylinder to turn backwards a bit, in case you turn it too far while unloading?
If so, have you checked these parts, listed in the owner's manual:
32 Ejector Alignment Pawl
33 Cylinder Rotation Stop Spring
34 Cylinder Rotation Stop Screw

Edit: Found the nomenclature: “reverse indexing cylinder mechanism”

 

[Ole_270]

No, this one has to go on around if you turn it too far.
It did it the first time at 25 rounds right out of the box. I took it apart and deburred everything I could and it smoothed out a bunch as well as extending the interval to about 200 rounds. When it hangs up you can often get it to free up by smacking the backstrap with the heel of your hand a couple times. Have to do it again after firing the next cylinder full.
I can shove a qtip up from the bottom into the slot and get things pretty clean while it's apart, pipe cleaner in the spring hole to clean it out. I've wondered a few times if the hole for the spring where it breaks out into the slot for the pawl might have a burr, but no idea how to clean it up if it does. The plunger that contacts the pawl has the blue worn off on the front half of it.

 

[DHD]

Just a FWIW, I'd buggered up a pawl plunger spring one time putting a Bisley BH back together and ended up putting a blued pawl plunger back in a stainless gun (it's possible they're all blued as I can't remember off the top of my head if that part is available in SS). I had that gun apart a couple weeks ago for a new Power Custom pawl and I do remember the plunger had some of the bluing rubbed off. I haven't ever had any issues so I suspect that the hole isn't smooth on any of them and you'll see some wear of the finish on that part on all of them.

Also, if you have one of the new midframe Flattop's, then you do have the indexing pawl as it's a feature on them. You can cock the hammer and look down into the hammer slot and see it (it's an allen screw). Removing that screw also allows you to pull out the other 2 referenced parts and with these removed you have a free spin cylinder. I did this immediately when I recieved my Bisley Flattop while doing an action job. A free spin pawl is a love it or hate it thing. I won't have one without it and have spent a few dollars as every BH I own has a Power Custom pawl (with the exception of the Flattop).

Point is, if you've cleaned it well, deburred it, and it still does the seizing thing then you've missed something. Take it back apart and remove these 3 parts (put them in a small plastic bag for posterity), reassemble and see what you see.

One last possible thing to look at is the transfer bar. While it taken down to remove the indexing mechanism (quite easy after you've done it a few times isn't it), take a long hard look at the transfer bar and slot and see if you're getting some uneven wear there. I've never had any problems with my NM BH's there, but some have mentioned it in other forums. While the transfer bar is out, give it a polish as it can't hurt as you're just polishing and not trying to remove metal.

Please let us know how it's going....

 

[Ole_270]

The gun is a New Model Blackhawk Stainless Flattop 45 Convertible. About 3 months old. The only thing in the hammer slot I see are the firing pin, base pin hole and a small plunger beneath and offset from the base pin hole. Guessing that is the parts you're talking about.

 

[462]

It's on the lefthand side, inboard of the lefthand grip screw. The screw, as DHD mentioned, is an Allen head, but it is a very small one.

 

[Ole_270]

Well, it's out but will be awhile before I can test it. I sent the hammer to Doug to take some of the creep out of the trigger pull.
Thanks guys

 

[DHD]

There'll be just a tiny bit of take up after he gets done with your hammer. With the exception of a Clements Custom Bisquero I have, all of my hammers have had DougGuy's hammer modification. With some polishing of moving parts, springs, and his hammer mod, a NM RBH tigger can be quite good.

Save those 3 small parts as I don't believe Ruger will sell them, or at least that's what I understand.

 

[RBHarter]

I know this is going to sound weird ...... Have you looked at the base pin for clean ?
I only have access to a 357 unmodified OM , yep halfcock with the gate open to turn the cylinder , and a 76' NM BlackHawk in 45 Colts fitted with an APC cyl . I replaced all of base pin parts because it jumps the retention button ..... It still does with anything over max Colts loads ....... Anyway there's a blind spring plunger there and honestly I don't know what it does but it does portrude in the hammer slot and a grip bump might move it . It's like stacking those little 8 and 16 oz ingots ........it doesn't take long for a 30 cal ammo can to weigh #60 or get 200# on a shelf . Maybe that last little scuff is the proverbial camel straw .

 

[Ole_270]

I usually shoot 30-60 rounds at a time and it gets cleaned after each session. That includes Cylinder, bore, and all the powder residue on the frame. Base pin gets wiped down as well. With the amount of thread choke it has I get some leading. I tried firelapping the choke, but spooked and quit after quite a few rounds. The leading is mostly in the choke area and right after it. Mostly in the corners of the grooves, but some buildup on the lands. Copper chore boy wraps on a brush get all but a slight wash in the corners of the grooves.

 

[DHD]

Thread choke on the 44 Special? Don't doubt you, just asking. As so many have stated, Ruger's SS is part woodpecker lips and part oak knot! Plenty of thread choke threads, but all say the SS guns are interesting. All I can say is I've been lucky but I only have half a dozen and one has a fat custom barrel and another is a 357.

 

[Ole_270]

45 convertible, not 44 special

 

[DHD]

I had 44 Special on the brain I guess as you stated a couple times it was a 45 Convertible. Did your cylinder make the trip with your hammer?

 

[Ole_270]

both cyl went previously

 

[462]

I know what Doug Guy does to cylinders, what does he do to triggers?

 

[Ole_270]

I know what Doug Guy does to cylinders, what does he do to triggers?

Not the trigger, he grinds down the hammer to lessen the amount of creep.

 

[462]

Okay, another case of me not being able to read English.

Thanks for the information.

 

[DHD]

I don't know what DougGuy does exactly, and at the price I don't really care, but it sure does make for a good trigger pull on a BH. All of mine fall at under 3 pounds after Wolff springs.