Stocking up

[JWFilips]

I ordered Winchester primers from Cabelas this weekend with free shipping and only $20 hazmat I had some points on My Cab Card so that really helped brought 5000 Win LRP down to $118 ( before hazmat and tax ...for me) But they had no 2400 in stock at that time otherwise I would have secure that too! That is always the story Good deal only on one thing at a time!

 

[smokeywolf]

Good going JW. In the end, primers will always be more important than powder. Push comes to shove, you can make your own black. No primers and everything but your flinters become useless.

 

[JWFilips]

Smokey,
Yeah that is what I figure. I have a pile of IMR powders from the 1980 ( When I was into benchrest & powder was cheap and Business was good and I always had money to buy what I wanted ) A few are partially used and Many unopened.
I figure If times get bad as long as I have primers I can figure out how to use those with cast.
May even have to resort to Poly Fillers!
Jim

 

[blackthorn]

17-88 grs of 2400 will stack stuff together in the 308 like nobody's business.

17 - 88 ? Misprint? Is not that is an awfully big range?

 

[fiver]

88 would be a bit much I doubt you could get more than 50 in the case
18 would be more appropriate.
after 18 you need to be changing to a slower powder anyway.
24.5- 27.0 grs of AA-2230 would be a good next step, I have had good luck with that load in the 30-30/308/0-6 cases.
after that speed you need h-322 or 4064 range and those powders need a filler to do their best work.
H-322 has performed stellarly [yeah a made up word] but it absolutely needs a filler to settle it down otherwise the velocity variations will show you how a ladder test works.

 

[Stonecrusher]

24.5- 27.0 grs of AA-2230 would be a good next step, I have had good luck with that load in the 30-30/308/0-6 cases.
after that speed you need h-322 or 4064 range and those powders need a filler to do their best work.
H-322 has performed stellarly [yeah a made up word] but it absolutely needs a filler to settle it down otherwise the velocity variations will show you how a ladder test works.

Are you using filler with the AA-2230? I just bought a keg for loading some .223 and so far like it. It meters great in the Dillon and seems to shoot cooler than Varget. This is my first time using it and haven't tried it with cast yet.

 

[fiver]

I haven't been.
in the 30-30 it isn't necessary for sure.
in the 0-6 it might be needed at the lowest points, but so far I haven't seen the need.

 

[JonB]

Rx7 was the powder I liked the most for moderate loads(compared to a few others), when I first started loading cast in rifle, Then I got 3 big jugs of surplus SR4759 and that has become the powder I try first, due to the abundance of it, on hand.

 

[Pistolero]

4759 has been discontinued, so get what you want for your literal lifetime supply.

Interesting that you all like Reloader 7. I had poor results with it in .45-70, after reading
about how well it shoots. After dozens of different loads with it, none producing anything
better than mediocre to poor groups (jbullets, Speer and Rem 405s, Horn 350s and Sierra 300s) it happened.

Finally, on one load had the only 'fizzles' I have ever seen. Pop and fizz at
hammer drop (Marlin GG) and when you open the action, the case comes out smoking a
bit and dumping scorched powder in the action. Dumping out the case and a glob of
partially melted, scorched powder as big as a little finger tip falls out. Bullet is about 1" or
so into barrel. It did this twice on me. On the first one, I took it as some sort of a wierd
loading error. The second time, I figured it was the powder/case volume/primer/etc combo
and stopped doing it.

No - the powder is new and dry, stored in an oak cabinet in a cool, dry basement with all my other
powders. Never had anything like this before or since, but stopped using it in .45-70, and
when that pound is done, no more getting bought. I found that W748 will make superb
groups, great velocity and low pressures in .45-70, so not going back. Same tray of primers
with other powders, same day, did normal good work. I can show you pix of any number of
3-7 inch groups with RL7 when W748 will make round 1.5" groups with the same bullets.

Fluke? Maybe, but life is short and there are too many powders out there that have never
done that to me to have the slightest inclination to try again. I went back just now and
reviewed the photos, too. Used Fed 215M magnum match primers. No weak flame
there.

I have no doubt that you have all had excellent results, not questioning that in any way,
shape or form. Just that not everyone has excellent results with it.

Similar strange story with me and Varget. No problems but never one single "great"
group in a lot of trying. Finally stopped trying after 4064 beat it to death dozens and
dozens of times, when other folks are getting their best results with Varget.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

Very interesting Bill. Have never heard of that type of incident. I like Rx7 for
some things, but have never tried it in 45-70, and based upon your experience
will not try it.

I have pretty much settled on 2400 in 45-70 with loads some
place between 22 and 26 gr with dac fill, depending upon bullet weight. I
shoot mostly the old Gould HP, the RN Lyman 385 gr, and the Ohas flat nose
which from my mold drops right at 420 gr. Have heavy molds at or above the
500 gr. mark, but have no reason to shoot them punishment wise at my age.

Paul

 

[Chris]

Interesting and worth knowing about. Never had that experience myself, and I really appreciate this powder having had nothing but success in many applications.

Still, with so many powders out there it makes sense to stick with what works for you and what you have confidence in.

Speaking of unburned powder... and otherwise a bit off topic... Paul Matthews in his book "Forty Years with the .45/70" mentions the unburned powder problem using 3031 in the .45/70. My book is out on loan so I can't quote it exactly, but he suggests using a magnum LR primer to fire it up.

By no means am I advocating going off-data on primers, but I can say that a 3031 load with an LBT 400 at 1650 went from a mess of carbon and yellow powder grains to nearly clean by switching primers as above. Accuracy improved only slightly, but SD of velocity definitely reduced. Maybe somebody using Quickloads could verify this sometime?

If I recall correctly, Matthew's explanation had to do with expansion ratio and not enough pressure building in the case for reliable combustion. Seemed to make sense at the time.

 

[Ian]

That's why gawd invented the duplex load.

Bill, that's weird about RX 7. That stuff will light with a Remington 1.5 IME.

 

[Pistolero]

Heck, I couldn't figure it and would have ignored it if it only happened once. I might be slow,
but by the second time, I picked right up on it.....

Lots of other good powders, no need to fiddle with one that doesn't seem to like me.

Bill

 

[fiver]

yep if it isn't working move along.
rl-7 is a good powder but so is unique I either get results or I move along.
probably why I have 3031,4895, and 4064 all sitting on the shelf.

 

[Ian]

I always get a kick out of it when I read someone comment that "such and such powder is no good". There are plenty that didn't work for what I was trying to do, but really I don't think there are any "no good" powders today.

 

[fiver]

I doubt we have bad powders too.
it's just that sometimes they don't meet our expectations for the results we are trying to get.
I don't like 7 grs of unique on my 45 colt [shrug] so I either change to more powder [bad idea in an old colt revolver] or switch to a faster one and keep the pressure the same.
depending on my expectations or the gun's needs I have a decision to make.

 

[Ian]

My .45 Colts can't decide if they like Titegroup or Bullseye more. Gave up on Unique for that years ago, too position-sensitive and too filthy at standard pressure. However....Nine grains in a sturdy revolver under a 250-260-grain bullet is a good load. Oddly, HS6 is what I used for many years. Lots of unburned powder in the barrel but it shot great and didn't cake up the works like Unique.

 

[fiver]

6 grs of titegroup isn't a bad load I'm pretty sure I have a couple hundred of them loaded around here with that and the 452664.
2-300 loaded with 4.8grs of clay's and a 165gr rnfp too.
they approximate each other in pressure and velocity when the same bullet weight is used.
231 also does a pretty good job and burns pretty well but can be a bit smoky at times.
one of the best lighter loads I have ever shot was 5grs of red-dot under the 454424 it was absolutely murder on golf balls in my Bud's freedom arms model 83.
it doesn't do too bad in my revolvers either.

 

[Pistolero]

9 of Unique under a 454424 does really well in my BH .45 convertible. 8 gr of TG is another
good one, but neither would be good in the SAA.

I'll find something that will like the RL-7, but I'll be looking for a smaller case volume, I think.

Bill

 

[Ian]

I've shot a lot of it in my 45/90 WCF with some Dacron filler. Seemed to work better for me than XMP 5744 or IMR 4198, but not as well as WW748 or H335 with the 500+ grain bullets pushed to anything over medium velocity. IMR 3031 was a total bust with the loads, bullets, and alloy combinations I tried. It may be a long time before I shoot that rifle again, my retinal surgeon was not favorably impressed when I told him about it.