The media had an agenda and invented lies to support it. It's no different now.Intetesting specs. I think many assume that the majority were draftees from poor backgrounds.
Here is what happened, if drafted you would almost likely go to the Infantry, 11B MOS. If you enlisted two years unassigned you would mostly like go to 12 B, Combat Engineers, 13 B Artillery, or 14 B Armor. Infantry had a KIA rate of 14%, Engineers and Armor had a rate of 9% and Artillery 6%. By 1968 everyone knew the score.Intetesting specs. I think many assume that the majority were draftees from poor backgrounds.
2400 was the low end for .30 caliber, that's about where the sweet spot was for my M1A. Several of us including Brad were bumping up near 2700 and holding multiple 5-shot groups around 1 MOA at 100 yards with bolt rifles. Walter was smacking some little steel gong at 500 yards off a bipod while laying prone in the bed of a pickup, I think his loads were in the 23-2400 fps arena. No powder coat, just the right bullet, (we all had our favorites and they weren't the same), the right alloy or therabouts, a good lube for the speed and temperature, and a real rifle powder that had a curve and peak that the alloy and bullet shape liked in the particular throat each rifle had.So you are shooting plain lead bullets of some hardness at 2400 fps and above with no ill effects? Assume it is really hard alloy like linotype. I've never said I was an expert on this stuff. Always willing to learn more.
So what calibers, distances and group sizes do you get with your 2400+ fps plain cast bullet loads?
So, a powder coated cast bullet is much harder than a a jacketed bullet as a baseball is to an orange? Seems all these powder coaters who swear by them for hunting are shooting game with FMJs then? I don't powder coat either, just can't understand how it makes a cast bullet harder than copper.Throw an orange at a piece of sheetrock as hard as you can. Then throw a baseball at it as hard as you can.
Interesting. Seems to run against all the urban legend stuff about fast cast bullets. Now, can you shoot say 40 of 50 rounds and maintain your accuracy? I'm still wondering about lead buildup. When I was actively shooting in action pistol events, we shot some very hot loads for pins and deleading the barrel was a regular practice. I don't remember getting huge amounts of lead, but it was there for sure.but that should get you under an inch no problem, and run in the 2400 fps zone from your average deer rifle.
Absolutely. Based on stories told by older guys from when I was in the Corps, and I went in in '79, there were door gunners, it just wasn't an MOS or anything. I imagine it was whatever warm body was available...and good at it.You know, I was wondering about that. I know some of his other non-VN stories were a bit over the top. But never really thought much about his VN comments. So, after reading your comments, I did a little research on the USMC in VN and their use of helos. This is an excerpt from an article that I found. The article was titled, "The Marine Air War in Vietnam".
Helicopters played an extensive role in air operations in Vietnam, as Marine pilots flew CH-34s and later CH-46s and CH-53 Sea Stallions to transport Marines into landing zones near suspected enemy concentrations. They were also used to evacuate the wounded. Helicopters were also used to re-supply Marines in the field if landing strips were not available for use by C-130 transports. Other Marine pilots flew UH-1E Hueys and AH-1 Cobras. These choppers provided reconnaissance and armed air cover for combat air operations.
I would think that if the pilots were Marines then the crew would be Marines as well.
Funny how that has paralleled our experience at my Thorn Hollow range. BPCR, then military, then pretty much anything shooting cast as long as the MV is sub 1,800 fps. Did some BP buffalo rifle shooting getting prepped for a match up in Virginia, MN and was reminded of how much fun it can be, for about 30 shots a day.Shared this today at "church" (Charlie's Gun Shop) with the guys from the club. Looks like we are back to limiting velocities.
And I wanted to address something Fiver had said in his "laughing" post. I normally prefer to ignore silly comments. But I since it was made in a very public forum, I need to say something. The picture you painted of Wilton as a bunch of old ladies drinking coffee and shooting wimpy loads just to hear the bullet go ping on the target could not be further from the truth. As I had mentioned before, this club started out as a BPCR club. As a matter of fact, we were amongst some of the first when BPCR was rediscovered and the boys at Wilton started figuring out some of the secrets that had been well known to guys like Pope and such but lost to time. The result was as an NRA Silhouette club, our shooters were ranked nationally and the scores from our monthly matches were turned into the NRA. As a result, the NRA took issue with the scores they were seeing and were suspicious that the shooters were padding their scores. The club was a bit put off by this insinuation and the result was the NRA sent a rep out to walk our range and witness one of our shoots. The NRA was of the opinion that it was not possible for our boys to be shooting the scores that were being submitted without bending the rules in some way if they were not simply lying on the scoresheets. Well, the NRA guy came out and he got a ringside seat to our monthly match and he saw for himself that the Wilton range was within NRA standards and the Wilton boys were shooting the scores that were being turned in with no skullduggery of any kind. And several Wilton shooters went to Raton on more than one occasion and showed those folks out west that we could shoot in the wind just like they did and we could win doing it. Dave Hicks is one of the boys from Wilton and he went on to shoot on the US team and has set several records and I believe some of them still stand.
So, my point is the tradition of shooting BPCR type velocities is deep at Wilton. At 71, I'm one of the youngsters in the club and we have all lost our appetite for the recoil from rifles like .45-70, .45-90, .50-90 and similar. Myself and a couple other shooter have floaters that are still attached to our retinas. Heavy recoil can cause the floater to actually tear the retina. That is not something you want to happen. Plus, we have also grown weary of the stink and work involved in cleaning up after shooting BPCR. So, we have dropped out of NRA matches and bent the rules to allow other types of vintage rifles, mostly military. Knock down targets have been converted to swingers because we can't get enough geezers out to reset targets after every relay. And we even went so far as to allow smokeless powder (which Charlie still maintains is a passing fad although he probably shoots more Unique than BP these days) as long as the bullets are lead and the velocities in the BPCR region. And if you think that is wimping out, then I'd suggest that you try to shoot a slow .30 caliber bullet at a 3 MOA target set at 500 yds in a changing wind that goes from nothing to 30 mph faster than the spotter can call it, along with eddies, mini-twisters and mirage all at the same time. We have had more than one new shooter come out and see us shooting off the bench with vintage scopes and think, "Hell, this is easy.". They show up the following week ready to kick some ass and normally leave with a serious dose of humility.
My shooting partner is 87. He has been a rifle shooter probably longer than I've been on the planet. He's shot bench rest and was on many Army teams over his military career. He still shoots F-class with a .308 and he wins his class on a regular basis. I'm talking out to 1000 yds. He has said on more than one occasion that Wilton is the best thing that ever happened to him. He has more fun shooting his 03A3 or .32-40 High Wall than anything he has done in years. Although, I'm not sure that includes his time as a skirmisher and on a cannon team that also won matches on a regular basis. If you think we are la-de-da shooters, you are more than welcome to come shoot with us some day. Bring any rifle you want. But use lead bullets and keep the velocity below 1600 fps and we'll see how you do.
Respectfully submitted.
Yikes!! I know a guy with similar experiences. And he doesn't shoot.I've had six laser surgeries on my dominant eye to repair retinal tears.
Would have been a CH46, not a 47. 46 has tricycle landing gear and is smaller, also known as the "Sea Knight". 47 is the Chinook. CH46 is the Marine/Navy bird, CH-47 is Army.I knew a Marine who was assigned as a machine gunner on a USMC Chinook helicopter. However, his MOS was Rifleman and was assigned to an independent security platoon in Da Nang. His position was on the M60 on the right side of the ship and the crew chief on the left side.