Elric
Well-Known Member
Another oldie but goodie.
The .25-21 Cartridge
Shooting And Fishing, page 68, vol 31, No. 4, Nov 7, 1901
No link on Google Books yet, but Google was the one that OCR’d it...
A reader of Shooting And Fishing asks for information regarding the .25-21 Stevens cartridge shell and 86 grain bullet, using the No. 1 primer. Another correspondent asks for information regarding loading with very light charges for indoor or short range work.
Having had quite an experience with such work, I will try to give the result, trusting it may prove of some use to those who, like myself, find much pleasure in the small bore. The rifle I use is a 28 inch Stevens Ideal, mounted with a full length Mogg telescope of about 12 power. I shoot from the right shoulder, and use a muzzle rest in experimenting with ammunition for accuracy. To note all the failures I have made in using different kinds of powder or different proportions of the same with different tempers and weights of bullets would lead one to believe none of the powders on the market was good for anything in a rifle, or else might lead one to think the rifle was about fourth rate, so far as fine shooting goes. On the other hand, to relate the many fine scores I have succeeded in pulling out, after restoring order from chaos, might lead one to think all the powders good, and the rifle and glass a marvel of excellence. The latter is the true solution of the matter. And the same applies to the .25-21 shell. The rifle is cut with a 14 inch twist and weighs, with telescope, about nine pounds.
One correspondent asked about black powder. In dirty shooting, using 21 grains, measured in the Ideal U. P. measure and one thin cardboard wad on the powder, seated with the No. 3 Ideal loading tool, I have had the best success by priming with about 3 grains or so of Hazard Blue Ribbon nitro or with the same quantity of Schultze. My nitro charger is made from a .22 short shell, with a bit of wire soldered to it for a handle. I then use 17 grains of black with it. When using the black powder clear I use the shell full, with wad in muzzle and seat bullet in barrel, either using a breathing tube in breech after each shot or drawing a wiper through. I think I have secured just as fine work at 200 yards, shooting from the shell, as in seating bullet in barrel, other conditions and things being equal. The brands of black powder I have used with best success are Hazard rifle FG and DuPont FG; yet I am of the opinion that there are other brands just as good if one will take time to find the proper charges and grades. The above are to use with No. 1 primers, not nitro or any strong primer. Those marked No. 1w do not work so well with some loads.
In short range work I find it is necessary to use the full charges of powder with the 86-grain bullet, as lighter powder charges allow the bullet to tip or keyhole too much. I do not think the 86-grain bullet as good for general use at 200 yards as the 84-grain sharp point. A temper of about 1 to 50 or 1 to 60 has given the best results in my rifle, varying a little with the powder used. With FFG powder and two wads I use a little harder bullet than with the FG. I think the latter is a little the best powder, particularly in a warm, dry atmosphere. Bullets should be .257 inch in diameter.
In the other query; namely, light charges and short range, your correspondent says 15 grains of powder is too much. I would suggest that he get an Ideal Perfection mold and use the 56 and 67 grain bullets——or get the single ones if preferred. I have found that in reducing charges to get good results I must keep the proportions within their proper limit, powder and lead should be balanced, but the lighter the powder charge the quicker the brand of powder should be. Ten grains, by bulk, of Hazard Blue Ribbon or DuPont No. 1 Rifle nitro powder, with a 67-grain bullet, 1 to 50, has given me good accuracy at 50 yards, with power enough to kill squirrels and small game well. Use a thin cardboard wad over the powder.
With six grains of nitro, using DuPont, Hazard, E. C. and one brand—I have forgotten which—of S. S. or S. K. nitro powder and a 56-grain bullet of soft lead, I have secured very good accuracy at 60 feet, in a basement range. I am told the sharp point 52-grain Ideal bullet gives excellent short range work with about six grains nitro shotgun powder. A wad should always be used, and the shell tapped to settle powder, but no force used to press wad down. Seat wad squarely on powder. As there is so much cushioning to the air in shell between wad and bullet a hard bullet is not necessary. I am inclined to believe the sharp point bullet is the more desirable one for these light charges. A charge of 15 grains Hazard or DuPont No. 1 Rifle, one wad and a 77 or 73 grain sharp-point bullet is excellent. Eighteen grains DuPont Rifle No. 1, one wad and an 84-grain sharp point bullet, 1 to 40, is an excellent game charge, and has the advantage of cleanliness over black powder, as well as of higher speed, less noise and smoke. I have never been able to use more than that in the .25 caliber with accuracy.
With the very light charges mentioned above, one may use the stronger primers with success; but as a rule the No. 1 or 1 ½ primers will be found the best for the .25—21 shell. I have never yet seen one of the shells blown off at the head, or even split. One may use the finer brands of black powder and secure fair results in short range work, using about the same bulk as given above; but it is smoky, and is not nearly as desirable for indoor shooting as the nitro. Lubricate the bullets with beef tallow in which has been melted a little vaseline. Do not burn or overheat the compound. Dip base down and set on a board to cool; then size and load as required. Better shooting is secured by using the cartridges soon after loading.
The above directions, proportions, etc., are right for the rifle I use, and will be found approximately correct for all rifles with 14 inch twist; yet each individual barrel may require a slight change in using some one or more of the charges. If so the right charge may soon be found by a little variation in the powder. The bullet and temper will probably be found all right as given above. Do not forget the wad and very light or no pressure in loading it.
For indoor shooting have a good, safe backing, for six grains of nitro and a 52-grain bullet will go through a 2 inch plank and stir up plenty of trouble beyond if care is not used
I think the most accurate and steady shooting short range load I ever found is 10 grains, bulk, of King’s Semi-Smokeless and a 62-grain sharp-point bullet, 1 to 50, FFFG brand of powder, two wads. It shoots fine at 50 yards, and probably would do fine work at 200 yards on a still day. If a light pressure even is given to the wad in loading the result is likely to be a stringing of the shots up and down on the target, and it seems to be well nigh impossible to give a pressure equal or uniform enough to prevent it. [Ed. ohh, they graded Semi-Smokeless in black powder equivalents?]
When the right charge is found I am of the opinion that finer average work may be done at short range by the .25-21 central fire shell than any I have ever tried for gallery or indoor work. If one can load his own shells-—many do and enjoy it the expense is next to nothing. Powder and lead are cheap, and primers not expensive. If one wishes at any time to shoot at anything like game it is far ahead of any .22 caliber using full charge. Regarding nitro powder in rifles, if one will wash them out with ammonia after using, and wipe them dry, he need fear rust no more than in using black powder; but if he insists in using strong primers, which of themselves eat up the barrels at an alarming rate, one may have trouble from pitting and rust spots. But do not make the nitro powder the scapegoat when the fulminate of mercury is eating up the bore of the rifle. With good lubricant I have fired 300 and more shots from my rifle without once wiping it, and had the barrel as free from fouling and doing as good work after the whole number as after the second shot. With a straight shell there is little trouble in finding a good short range load, if one will persist in the hunt for it. With a bottle-neck shell it is different, as a wad cannot be so uniform and well placed. Cotton and such substances are not like an even piece of cardboard, and cannot be so uniform in results unless great pains are taken to get the same quantity at each load.
A. R. D.
The .25-21 Cartridge
Shooting And Fishing, page 68, vol 31, No. 4, Nov 7, 1901
No link on Google Books yet, but Google was the one that OCR’d it...
A reader of Shooting And Fishing asks for information regarding the .25-21 Stevens cartridge shell and 86 grain bullet, using the No. 1 primer. Another correspondent asks for information regarding loading with very light charges for indoor or short range work.
Having had quite an experience with such work, I will try to give the result, trusting it may prove of some use to those who, like myself, find much pleasure in the small bore. The rifle I use is a 28 inch Stevens Ideal, mounted with a full length Mogg telescope of about 12 power. I shoot from the right shoulder, and use a muzzle rest in experimenting with ammunition for accuracy. To note all the failures I have made in using different kinds of powder or different proportions of the same with different tempers and weights of bullets would lead one to believe none of the powders on the market was good for anything in a rifle, or else might lead one to think the rifle was about fourth rate, so far as fine shooting goes. On the other hand, to relate the many fine scores I have succeeded in pulling out, after restoring order from chaos, might lead one to think all the powders good, and the rifle and glass a marvel of excellence. The latter is the true solution of the matter. And the same applies to the .25-21 shell. The rifle is cut with a 14 inch twist and weighs, with telescope, about nine pounds.
One correspondent asked about black powder. In dirty shooting, using 21 grains, measured in the Ideal U. P. measure and one thin cardboard wad on the powder, seated with the No. 3 Ideal loading tool, I have had the best success by priming with about 3 grains or so of Hazard Blue Ribbon nitro or with the same quantity of Schultze. My nitro charger is made from a .22 short shell, with a bit of wire soldered to it for a handle. I then use 17 grains of black with it. When using the black powder clear I use the shell full, with wad in muzzle and seat bullet in barrel, either using a breathing tube in breech after each shot or drawing a wiper through. I think I have secured just as fine work at 200 yards, shooting from the shell, as in seating bullet in barrel, other conditions and things being equal. The brands of black powder I have used with best success are Hazard rifle FG and DuPont FG; yet I am of the opinion that there are other brands just as good if one will take time to find the proper charges and grades. The above are to use with No. 1 primers, not nitro or any strong primer. Those marked No. 1w do not work so well with some loads.
In short range work I find it is necessary to use the full charges of powder with the 86-grain bullet, as lighter powder charges allow the bullet to tip or keyhole too much. I do not think the 86-grain bullet as good for general use at 200 yards as the 84-grain sharp point. A temper of about 1 to 50 or 1 to 60 has given the best results in my rifle, varying a little with the powder used. With FFG powder and two wads I use a little harder bullet than with the FG. I think the latter is a little the best powder, particularly in a warm, dry atmosphere. Bullets should be .257 inch in diameter.
In the other query; namely, light charges and short range, your correspondent says 15 grains of powder is too much. I would suggest that he get an Ideal Perfection mold and use the 56 and 67 grain bullets——or get the single ones if preferred. I have found that in reducing charges to get good results I must keep the proportions within their proper limit, powder and lead should be balanced, but the lighter the powder charge the quicker the brand of powder should be. Ten grains, by bulk, of Hazard Blue Ribbon or DuPont No. 1 Rifle nitro powder, with a 67-grain bullet, 1 to 50, has given me good accuracy at 50 yards, with power enough to kill squirrels and small game well. Use a thin cardboard wad over the powder.
With six grains of nitro, using DuPont, Hazard, E. C. and one brand—I have forgotten which—of S. S. or S. K. nitro powder and a 56-grain bullet of soft lead, I have secured very good accuracy at 60 feet, in a basement range. I am told the sharp point 52-grain Ideal bullet gives excellent short range work with about six grains nitro shotgun powder. A wad should always be used, and the shell tapped to settle powder, but no force used to press wad down. Seat wad squarely on powder. As there is so much cushioning to the air in shell between wad and bullet a hard bullet is not necessary. I am inclined to believe the sharp point bullet is the more desirable one for these light charges. A charge of 15 grains Hazard or DuPont No. 1 Rifle, one wad and a 77 or 73 grain sharp-point bullet is excellent. Eighteen grains DuPont Rifle No. 1, one wad and an 84-grain sharp point bullet, 1 to 40, is an excellent game charge, and has the advantage of cleanliness over black powder, as well as of higher speed, less noise and smoke. I have never been able to use more than that in the .25 caliber with accuracy.
With the very light charges mentioned above, one may use the stronger primers with success; but as a rule the No. 1 or 1 ½ primers will be found the best for the .25—21 shell. I have never yet seen one of the shells blown off at the head, or even split. One may use the finer brands of black powder and secure fair results in short range work, using about the same bulk as given above; but it is smoky, and is not nearly as desirable for indoor shooting as the nitro. Lubricate the bullets with beef tallow in which has been melted a little vaseline. Do not burn or overheat the compound. Dip base down and set on a board to cool; then size and load as required. Better shooting is secured by using the cartridges soon after loading.
The above directions, proportions, etc., are right for the rifle I use, and will be found approximately correct for all rifles with 14 inch twist; yet each individual barrel may require a slight change in using some one or more of the charges. If so the right charge may soon be found by a little variation in the powder. The bullet and temper will probably be found all right as given above. Do not forget the wad and very light or no pressure in loading it.
For indoor shooting have a good, safe backing, for six grains of nitro and a 52-grain bullet will go through a 2 inch plank and stir up plenty of trouble beyond if care is not used
I think the most accurate and steady shooting short range load I ever found is 10 grains, bulk, of King’s Semi-Smokeless and a 62-grain sharp-point bullet, 1 to 50, FFFG brand of powder, two wads. It shoots fine at 50 yards, and probably would do fine work at 200 yards on a still day. If a light pressure even is given to the wad in loading the result is likely to be a stringing of the shots up and down on the target, and it seems to be well nigh impossible to give a pressure equal or uniform enough to prevent it. [Ed. ohh, they graded Semi-Smokeless in black powder equivalents?]
When the right charge is found I am of the opinion that finer average work may be done at short range by the .25-21 central fire shell than any I have ever tried for gallery or indoor work. If one can load his own shells-—many do and enjoy it the expense is next to nothing. Powder and lead are cheap, and primers not expensive. If one wishes at any time to shoot at anything like game it is far ahead of any .22 caliber using full charge. Regarding nitro powder in rifles, if one will wash them out with ammonia after using, and wipe them dry, he need fear rust no more than in using black powder; but if he insists in using strong primers, which of themselves eat up the barrels at an alarming rate, one may have trouble from pitting and rust spots. But do not make the nitro powder the scapegoat when the fulminate of mercury is eating up the bore of the rifle. With good lubricant I have fired 300 and more shots from my rifle without once wiping it, and had the barrel as free from fouling and doing as good work after the whole number as after the second shot. With a straight shell there is little trouble in finding a good short range load, if one will persist in the hunt for it. With a bottle-neck shell it is different, as a wad cannot be so uniform and well placed. Cotton and such substances are not like an even piece of cardboard, and cannot be so uniform in results unless great pains are taken to get the same quantity at each load.
A. R. D.
Last edited:
