What a difference bullet alloy makes

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
As some of you know, I have been trying to make my 40/50 Sharps Straight shoot my standard alloy, 1990's WW's plus 2% tin. So after ten years of failures, I made bullets from some 25/1 alloy. Load is 23 grains of IMR 4198 and WW large rifle primers.

The five shot group is the 25/1 and the ten shot group is my standard. Sometimes stubbornness and persistence does not beat reality.
 

Attachments

  • standard alloy.jpg
    standard alloy.jpg
    359.1 KB · Views: 17
  • 25 to 1.jpg
    25 to 1.jpg
    599.8 KB · Views: 17

Ian

Notorious member
But I have over a ton of the standard alloy, and I had to buy the soft alloy. :sigh: And with real US dollars!

Where on earth did you find REAL US dollars? Haven't seen any of those since Nixon. That's high-priced alloy indeed!

FYI I started with 20:1 with IMR 3031 and a tuft of Dacron in my 45/90 WCF. It grouped 1.5 MOA with my lousy eyes out to 300 yards (farthest I shot it) so I never did change. We tried cases full of 3F too and that did great but OMG the recoil with the Lyman Postell. My rifle has a smooth but rather abrupt throat, not designed for paper-patched BP loads.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Ian, the throat is part of the problem. All C. Sharps .40's are cut for a paper patched bullet. A long throat that is longer than the original 265 grain bullet. A generous person here sent me some paper patched bullets, but they were worse than anything I had tried. Going to cast more at 25/1 and work on powders. Ric
 

fiver

Well-Known Member
Ric.
chip chop that ww alloy down.
1-1,, 1.5-1,, you'll still be pretty balanced but a lot less, with the malleability your getting from the tin/lead alloy.
plus straight lead is a lot cheaper than buying tin alloy.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
That is what I'm going to do. I have maybe eight pounds of tin left over from making my standard alloy. So I will buy lead and work from there.
 

Ian

Notorious member
. A generous person here sent me some paper patched bullets, but they were worse than anything I had tried.

You got the throat for it, why fight it?

Size down a lube groove bullet until it's about a thousandth larger than bore diameter. Two wraps of green bar printer paper, dipped in water and squeegeed out, roll it on tight, twist the tail, put in a .45 ACP cartridge box tray to dry. When dry, smear them with your favorite slickum (70% Vaseline and 30% beeswax is really tough to surpass) and load in cases sized only enough to hold the bullet under light handling and belled as much as will chamber fully. Alloy can be anything reasonably soft, 50/50 wheelweights/pure would be a place to start, or use your 25:1. Seat the bullet the last bit by pushing the cartridge flush in the barrel with your thumb.

Paul Matthews wrote a whole book on paper patching bullets intended for smokeless powder, if you don't have a copy you can borrow mine.
 

300BLK

Well-Known Member
Blackpowder may resolve your issue even with your "standard alloy". In the spring one year, I found 457125s with the nose fully engraved, and they were too hard to scratch with a thumbnail. It seems a couple of hardcore BPCR shooters were testing, and shot hard bullets including linotype, while there was a fair amount of snow on the banks. Back in those days, mid '90s, they were shooting Elephant and Goex in their 45-70s.

Regarding paperpatch, I borrowed a Tom Ballard 45cal 500gr (?)tapered PP mould from a guy and cast some. I don't recall, but probably 25-1, patched with high cotton content rag paper, loaded over Goex ffg or Ctg, and shot through my scoped Ruger #1 45-70. I don't think there was 1/4" of bullet in the case, and they thumbed right into the bore. Recoil was....ferocious....but shot quarter sized groups at 100 yards.

There is a bit of learning curve for shooting real BP, but it can be pretty simple. Large pistol primers (!), minimal sizing of cases, loading BP by volume through a droptube, over powder card wad, compressing powder, and seating the bullet. I preferred just enough neck tension so as to have "cartridges", but some guys liked lots of neck tension while others loaded "slip fit". It IS necessary to decap and wash your cases between loadings. Wiping between shots isn't necessary if you have a lube that works with BP fouling and your humidity, but a blowtube is almost a necessity.
 
Last edited:

fiver

Well-Known Member
yeah that's the one.

IIRC [not in that book?] he also done some work with paper patching jacketed bullets.
i got a 3 row grooving tool i was gonna do some P/P and Jacketed rifle work with, doubt i'll get to that project in this lifetime,,, siiigh.
 

Snakeoil

Well-Known Member
Ric, I just went down the same road with my .32-40. Only did not take as long to give in and go with 30:1. 20:1 was too hard. I assume we are talking PB bullets here. Another revalation was the standard .002 over groove diameter does not apply.

The Schuetzen guys shoot at our club twice a season. Good time to pick brains and get educated. Those guys know all the tricks.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
Ric, I just went down the same road with my .32-40. Only did not take as long to give in and go with 30:1. 20:1 was too hard. I assume we are talking PB bullets here. Another revalation was the standard .002 over groove diameter does not apply.

The Schuetzen guys shoot at our club twice a season. Good time to pick brains and get educated. Those guys know all the tricks.
The cast I made of the throat is .410" and maybe 2 degree included angle to the .400" lands and .408" grooves.

The Mountain Mold bullet I designed was suppose to be a compromise "white tail and black bear" bullet and target. Yes, plain based. Before I go to paper patching, I will try breech seating as I have all the equipment for that. If I get to paper patching, it will be with 50/1 alloy from the 50/70 and then only for hunting bullets. Life is too short to do that for fun plinkers!
 

300BLK

Well-Known Member
I think I still have some original Winchester 40cal PP bullets here, box fell apart, 330gr IIRC.

RCBS 40-300-CSA might do well in that if you're trying to keep the weight down. There were folks shooting that cartridge in BPCRS with compressed loads of fffg Swiss and heavier bullets.
 

RicinYakima

High Steppes of Eastern Washington
My design is very like the CSA 300 grain except for a little larger meplat and shorter nose. My game of choice is plain base bullets with the CBA, which is only 100 and 200 yards, so 300 grains is plenty.

Yesterday I cast 75 more of soft alloy. I will probably up the powder charge 10%, as a third of the soft annealed cases were smoked back to the head.
 

oscarflytyer

Well-Known Member
I have aRem RB in 43 Spanish. I am startimg with 20:1 and working up to 40:1 if that's what it takes... They tend to be fat bores.