What to do with .458 HardCast . . .

[glassparman]

OK, so I just picked up a box of RedLine Ballistics (local in SOCAL) Hardcast bullets with some other reloading stuff. The box says for 45-70. These are SUPER hard and obviously for a modern rifle as I don't dare load them up for my 1884 Trapdoor. I can't even scratch them with my nail.

Soooooo, what say the crowd:

1. Melt them down to recast for my 8mm Mauser, 303 British or .30-06
2. Trade them for some hardcast for my 8mm Mauser, 303 British or .30-06

The box is not full but I think about 200. I really hate to melt down such pretty bullets but . . . .

Mike

 

[Winelover]

Melt them down, add pure lead, use for handgun loads.

 

[462]

If you don't have any pure lead ingots or stick-on wheel weights, post a "Want to Buy or Trade" thread for either. I wouldn't melt and re-cast without adding pure lead.

 

[glassparman]

I have probably 100 pounds of wheel weights and linotype cast into ingots for handgun and my old stuff like the Trapdoor.

Nowhere on the package or their website does it say what BHN they are. It simply says "Hard Cast".

I really need some hard stuff for Mausers and Enfields . . .

 

[Winelover]

Without a hardness test, you're in pretty much in limbo. "Hard" is usually counter productive. Most of my alloy is 15 BHN or less. On the few occasions, I want harder, I'll just heat treat my alloy. Even WW alloy is cut with 50% pure. BTW, I don't shoot powder puff, loads. Soft alloy can be countered, with a gas check or powder coating............. Or so I 've been told. I don't powder coat but use gas checks in rifles and carbines. The right bullet fit is also important.

 

[Ian]

Well, for one thing they're probably too small, and the lube (if any) is rock-hard microwax. What you have there is a recipe for extreme bore leading. I'd save them and use them to toughen up some soft lead scrap a little.

 

[glassparman]

Ian, yeah, I had no plans of using them as is. I knew that when I bought them. I could do as you say and sweeten some pours for my other rifles. They are just so shiny and nice!

 

[358156 hp]

"Hard Cast" is an ambiguous term of course. It sounds scientific and everything, but the original "hard" alloys were generally pure lead with tin added. Elmer Keiths "hard" alloy was 16-1 lead/tin IIRC, approx. bhn 11.

 

[Matt]

Make sure they are not zinc...........

 

[Rick]

"Hard" is usually counter productive.

Absolutely. The term "Hard Cast" has led many a new caster and buyers of commercial cast down the road of leaded bores. Hard cast is a term invented by commercial casters to help sell their product to the unknowing simply because a hard bullet ships better than a soft one. Same reason they use a hard lube. The hard bullet doesn't get all dinged up and the hard lube stays on the bullet during shipping. It has little to do with what shoots best or is best for the customer.

 

[RBHarter]

I've been set straight about "hard cast" it's a very specific term that specifies there is stuff other than tin in your lead .

439.5 gr per oz , gives you pretty handy sized ingot for alloying harder . You have 10-11# of there that would probably bump 15-20# of pure up to WW .

Zinc ...... Well experiments here seem to point to a little going a long way in making alloys hard . Seems like you'd notice the difference pretty easy between a 200 and 405 gr in a 405 sized bullet .

 

[glassparman]

Yeah, I was at a yard sale years ago and found an 75 pound ingot that I thought was lead. Turned out to be Zinc. Never tried to cast with it, it just acts as a weight for my portable grinder stand.

 

[L Ross]

I have probably 100 pounds of wheel weights and linotype cast into ingots for handgun and my old stuff like the Trapdoor.

Nowhere on the package or their website does it say what BHN they are. It simply says "Hard Cast".

I really need some hard stuff for Mausers and Enfields . . .

Golly if I ever got down to 100 lbs. of ingots I think I'd develop a case of the drizzlin' two step. If I only 10X that I'd be nervous.

Any way I don't think you need "hard stuff" for your Mausers and Enfields. I get by just fine with wheel weights and 1 or 2% tin. The hardest bullets I am using are 1 lb. of Linotype to every 5 lbs. of Wheel Weights and I'm only doing that because I feel like I need to shoot up some of my 40 year collection of Linotype. That blend does seem to be making good bullets. I don't water drop or heat treat. I size to .311" in my .30 calibers, and to .325" in my 8 m/m. I lube the bottom grease groove with Ben's Red, then I tumble every 50 of them in 10 drops of Ben's Liquid Lube. Hereafter known as BLL.

My fastest loads stay under 1,800 fps so I do not ding up my mild steel targets. My ammo is holding 2 MOA or less out to 440 yards so far.

 

[glassparman]

Ok, so someone explain to this newbee why they make bullets that hard? If it is not needed, why waste the resources?

What is the need?

Mike

 

[Bliksem]

Golly if I ever got down to 100 lbs. of ingots I think I'd develop a case of the drizzlin' two step. If I only 10X that I'd be nervous.

<snip>

My sentiments exactly. Even with moderately light cast bullets running out of alloy is a very real possibility. When casting for my 45-70 or 458WM 100# of alloy produces only about 1,500 450gn bullets.

 

[Bliksem]

Ok, so someone explain to this newbee why they make bullets that hard? If it is not needed, why waste the resources?

What is the need?

Mike

There is no real need for the alloy to be that hard and is actually counter productive. As to why they make them that hard, they ship well, nothing more.

There are other properties of binary and terniary alloys such as toughness and ductility that are sometimes more important than usually considered. Consider this: you can have a super hard bullet that can crack if dropped onto concrete as it is hard but without the other required properties.

 

[Ian]

As to why they make them that hard, they ship well, nothing more

Yes. Same for the lube they put on them.

 

[Ian]

When you start thinking in terms of 5-gallon bucket quantities for cast bullets, 100 pounds is barely one good casting session.

 

[Rick]

Ok, so someone explain to this newbee why they make bullets that hard? If it is not needed, why waste the resources? What is the need? Mike

Absolutely. The term "Hard Cast" has led many a new caster and buyers of commercial cast down the road of leaded bores. Hard cast is a term invented by commercial casters to help sell their product to the unknowing simply because a hard bullet ships better than a soft one. Same reason they use a hard lube. The hard bullet doesn't get all dinged up and the hard lube stays on the bullet during shipping. It has little to do with what shoots best or is best for the customer.

 

[glassparman]

Ok then, it's settled. Gonna melt them down to harden up pure lead!

Thanks a million for all the input.

Mike