Which do you prefer and why: .45 Colt Lyman 454190 or 452424?

[Wallyl]

Having used both in my Ruger BHK...I have concluded the 452424 is better because it has a crimping groove. To load the 454190 case lengths have to be all the same; and even so I have noticed the crimps are never equal...some are deeper than others. Perhaps those that have tried both would share their experience and opinion...it should be most interesting. I have heard from many who feel the 454190 is best as it looks like the original factory .45 Colt bullet. However even Elmer Keith decided his .45 Keith bullet was better...the Lyman 452424 is pretty close to his design.

 

[Brad]

Never loaded or fired a 454190 in 45 Colt. Have a mould, haven’t used it at all.
Have fired many 454424 in 45 Colt but not in well over a decade.
I found better bullets than either of those.

If forced to use one of the two listed the 454424 wins every time. Clean holes in paper, better performance for hunting, and to me general appearance makes it a better choice.

The 454190 does look “traditional” but I don’t use 500 gr RN bullets in my 45-70 either.

If tradition is important to someone then ask to see their Model T.

 

[Wallyl]

Brad, I find it real interesting that you have a 454190 mould but never used it! What bullets have you found that are better?

 

[Brad]

Cayoots Wide, Flat & Kinda Heavy .45

Ok guys, this is it. I am now formally accepting orders for this Group Buy. There will be no changes or modifications from this boolit. That way everyone gets exactly what they expect. Here is a picture: 2363 This boolit has a 75% meplate and an estimated weight of 277 - 283 grains.

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Once I got this mould it became all I needed. Got my last deer with this one at 1150 FPS from my Marlin 1894. Same load runs 900 plus in my BH.

I have a nice 265 WFNGC mould too. I haven’t shot them in many, many years either.

The 454190 hasn’t been used because I prefer to find a single bullet, and load of possible, and just stick with it. Keeps the casting and loading process simpler for me.

I don’t own many moulds because I don’t buy many moulds.

 

[Wallyl]

I am a fellow that enjoys experimenting....I also have the Lee 240 WC, 252 SWC, 255 RF and had a 200 RF (I sold it as it was just not accurate enough for me). I will load them up using the same powder charge in each and do a "shoot out". When I do invariably I find the best is the Lyman 452424 & the Lee 252SWC. I should say...the 240 WC (Lee made them in the early 80's) is also very accurate. I have tried quite a few .45 ACP bullets in the .45 Colt; none proved all that good as they were less accurate and had large Std Deviations. My Ruger BHK has tight and equal throats but if you insert a carbide sized case into it, it is quite loose and rattles. The first 3/4" of the cylinder chambers are tapered. So no I use a RCBS steel .45 Colt sizer die for better chamber fit. I thought I was goofy going to that extreme, only to find that many others do the same. One needs to lube cases to resize in a steel die, however I clean off the lube pin tumbling, so it's not all that messy for me. Unlike you, I buy, try lots of molds. It is part of the enjoyment of the hobby for me.

 

[Ben]

I don’t own many moulds because I don’t buy many moulds.

For me, that one is real easy to understand................

Ben

 

[Brad]

I have the Lee 255 RNFP too. It doesn’t shoot as well to 100 as I like but otherwise does good work.

My FIL loves to mess with many bullets and moulds. He may shoot 100 rounds from a rifle/handgun at the range and they are made of different powders and bullets. Me? All one load.

If we were all the same life would be boring.

 

[Wallyl]

Brad,

When I started out in the shooting/casting/reloading I used to make up 500 ~ 1,000 round batches of teh same bullet/load. Often I'd find that at first that shot well, then they turned out not to be all that accurate. So I branched out and starting experimenting. I found that "shoot outs" worked best---compare a few loads and carefully record results. Also do so in consecutive range trips. That has worked out well for me. I am better shooting at objects that p-targets. My favorite "trial" is to set up five cans at 20 yards and shoot 'em in left to right, comparing how I do with different loads. As you might guess on one session I do well with one load, but I the next one I don't. That makes this quite an intriguing hobby.

 

[Brad]

I tend to load 50-100 rounds test batches for handgun. I figure if it doesn’t lead and shoots well for 100 rounds it is good to go.
Nothing is worse than having a bunch of known to be lousy ammo. I dislike pulling bullets so I usually just shoot it up.
I don’t load “bulk” ammo until I have fired a load enough to be positive it is what I want. I have a good load for my 1911 and until I am out of Promo or Red Dot that is all I will shoot.

 

[358156 hp]

I have a 454190 2 cav! Unfortunately, I'm not much help here. I use it sparingly, and only in 45 ACP. Now if we were talking about 44 mag bullets...

 

[Wallyl]

358156hp What is your favorite .44 Magnum cast bullet?

 

[RBHarter]

I have 452-255 and 452-200 and had a 452-252 Lee's . A 454424 NOE version and had a single 454424 Lyman round groove . The 452-255 is close to the 190 but has a crimp groove . My BlackHawk shot the 252 @262 gr , the 255 @265 gr and both of the 424s equally well over 9.5 gr of Unique . It was when the Carbine came along that things changed the 452-252 Lee shot great at 8.5 gr but when it stepped up to the full load it all went to the throne room bowl at about 70 yd at home , unfortunately I discovered this when I couldn't keep 3 on a 12×12 at 50 yd when I checked sights for a hog hunt ......
The 452-255 shot well enough to use and stayed on point to 90 yd and that was good enough for me .

But the 454424 has just produced the best most consistent groups at full power in 3 cylinders in a Ruger , 2 Smith's , a Colts , a High Point , and 2 Rossi carbines . That is as long as I stay under 75 yd or back them off to the 8.5 gr load and stay subsonic . Not all Colts but all 45s.

I'm hoping that the new barrel on the Rossi , still pending , will fix the transonic tumble through twist stability so I can get back to one load all of the Colts and Schofields . Different loads for the different cases obviously even with one bullet .

 

[fiver]

the 454424 shoots fine but is loaded more like the 190 for the lever guns so I end up with a heavy swc round that looks like a big 45 acp.
I prefer the 452664, similar to the lee 255rnfp,,, only different.
it don't matter what I use in a handgun, hitting a can at 20yds would be more a pattern of random front sight distribution coinciding with a flyer to hit one,, as much as me pointing and pressing properly and having a bullet fly straight.

 

[Wallyl]

You really gave it a good trial and the 424424 passed with flying colors. I have just one Ruger .45 BHK--you used an arsenal of firearms--thank you for your feed back.

I have 452-255 and 452-200 and had a 452-252 Lee's . A 454424 NOE version and had a single 454424 Lyman round groove . The 452-255 is close to the 190 but has a crimp groove . My BlackHawk shot the 252 @262 gr , the 255 @265 gr and both of the 424s equally well over 9.5 gr of Unique . It was when the Carbine came along that things changed the 452-252 Lee shot great at 8.5 gr but when it stepped up to the full load it all went to the throne room bowl at about 70 yd at home , unfortunately I discovered this when I couldn't keep 3 on a 12×12 at 50 yd when I checked sights for a hog hunt ......
The 452-255 shot well enough to use and stayed on point to 90 yd and that was good enough for me .

But the 454424 has just produced the best most consistent groups at full power in 3 cylinders in a Ruger , 2 Smith's , a Colts , a High Point , and 2 Rossi carbines . That is as long as I stay under 75 yd or back them off to the 8.5 gr load and stay subsonic . Not all Colts but all 45s.

I'm hoping that the new barrel on the Rossi , still pending , will fix the transonic tumble through twist stability so I can get back to one load all of the Colts and Schofields . Different loads for the different cases obviously even with one bullet .

 

[Wallyl]

I'd imagine in a lever gun that 4525664 would work better.

the 454424 shoots fine but is loaded more like the 190 for the lever guns so I end up with a heavy swc round that looks like a big 45 acp.
I prefer the 452664, similar to the lee 255rnfp,,, only different.
it don't matter what I use in a handgun, hitting a can at 20yds would be more a pattern of random front sight distribution coinciding with a flyer to hit one,, as much as me pointing and pressing properly and having a bullet fly straight.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I dont have a 454190 mold, but I have bought them. They are my “Cowboy load” bullet as its traditional. It always shoots very well for me.

But I do own the 452424 & 454424. I much prefer the 454. It has the proper sw groove and shorter wider meplat. Accuracy is always top shelf for me. Just last week, I shot three 45 colts and I shot both the commercial 454190 and my own 454424. All three guns shot my bullet under 2” @ 50 yards with 1100 fps loads using unique.

I have t fired the 452424 against the 454424 but I prefer the 454 version.

CW

 

[358156 hp]

358156hp What is your favorite .44 Magnum cast bullet?

280 gr LBT LFN GC. I may need to go to a lighter bullet, heavy recoil from shooting "train stoppers" is starting to make my hands shake. Tis' a pity. I have an NEI 429310 I've only test cast with so far, waiting in the wings. Maybe I can keep shooting it just until I need physical therapy? If I could have only one bullet for what I'm doing now, I think I would settle on Lyman 429244 260 gr GC, and not worry about it anymore.

The recoil isn't anywhere near as bad as when I bought the first 45 Colt Redhawk anybody around here had ever seen. I loaded Lymans 452651, seated long (it was a Redhawk after all), with old school WW 296, I recently found my old chrono notes- velocities averaged around 1320 with a 325 gr bullet that actually weighed about 10 grains more, fired from a 6 shot revolver, not a five shot. Recoil was spectacular! The gun would torque and flip like a stunt plane and end up over my head, pointed behind me. You can find pics of gunwriters shooting 454 Casulls doing the same thing. Those were crazy days, I would shoot at 4 inch long pieces of 2X4 that I'd throw into the creek. A near miss would launch them into the air, a hit would drive them under water, and they'd surface in pieces. This was back in my immortal days, I'm much wiser now. Boring, but wiser. I realized that I was going to blow the gun up if I didn't quit, so I traded it off after awhile.

BTW, to answer your original question, I'd run the Keith bullet, or the Thompson 452490 if you want a gascheck. Much is dependent or your particular needs Either of these two will outperform 454190 in almost every way except if "originality" counts. As you've seen, my only used for 454190 has been for the 45 ACP.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

My first experience a real recoil was a 12” Contender 45/70...

 

[smokeywolf]

Don't have anything chambered in 45 Colt that has the smaller .452 bore. Haven't cast nearly as many of the 424s as the 190s.

 

[Wallyl]

I favor 220 grain weight bullets in my M-29 & Ruger SBHK. Have shot a lot of 429214 & 429244s...the 429214 works so well, I seldom use the 429244 anymore.

280 gr LBT LFN GC. I may need to go to a lighter bullet, heavy recoil from shooting "train stoppers" is starting to make my hands shake. Tis' a pity. I have an NEI 429310 I've only test cast with so far, waiting in the wings. Maybe I can keep shooting it just until I need physical therapy? If I could have only one bullet for what I'm doing now, I think I would settle on Lyman 429244 260 gr GC, and not worry about it anymore.

The recoil isn't anywhere near as bad as when I bought the first 45 Colt Redhawk anybody around here had ever seen. I loaded Lymans 452651, seated long (it was a Redhawk after all), with old school WW 296, I recently found my old chrono notes- velocities averaged around 1320 with a 325 gr bullet that actually weighed about 10 grains more, fired from a 6 shot revolver, not a five shot. Recoil was spectacular! The gun would torque and flip like a stunt plane and end up over my head, pointed behind me. You can find pics of gunwriters shooting 454 Casulls doing the same thing. Those were crazy days, I would shoot at 4 inch long pieces of 2X4 that I'd throw into the creek. A near miss would launch them into the air, a hit would drive them under water, and they'd surface in pieces. This was back in my immortal days, I'm much wiser now. Boring, but wiser. I realized that I was going to blow the gun up if I didn't quit, so I traded it off after awhile.

BTW, to answer your original question, I'd run the Keith bullet, or the Thompson 452490 if you want a gascheck. Much is dependent or your particular needs Either of these two will outperform 454190 in almost every way except if "originality" counts. As you've seen, my only used for 454190 has been for the 45 ACP.