It is a 1x - 4X by 30 mm tube variable that I bought in Tulsa at the gun show. Works great. Not many other details.
30/30 Thoughts - Marlin
- Thread starter MW65
- Start date
Well, some good advice above. Kind of depends on the weight bullet you like. I'm a 150 grain guy as opposed to the heavy weights. On Marlins, I've found that a gas checked design helps with the shallow, micro groove rifling.
The most important advice is to find a bullet/mould/design with a nose that fits. Most Winchesters from my experience run right at .300". Maybe a little over. Marlins may go as high as .301+. If your bullet has a nose that want fit, a throating reamer and about 5 minutes fixes that if you choose that route.
Often times, we shoot ourselves in the foot on .30/30s with sizing. We come tearing out to a shop like I have that is unheated, crank up the sizer, Start GCing and lubing bullets and tend to expand the bullet nose to ovecome the lube being hard due to temp. Lyman's 311440 and 311291 are really bad about it if the fit is close. Seating the check or running through a cold sizer can expand that nose and give you problems. I use a nose first sizer if at all possible on the .30/30.
The other problem with the .30/30 is case length. Choose a batch and cut to the same length. Makes crimping easier and more uniform. Don't overcrimp with the .30/30. Shoulders buckle easy.
It's amazing. The one cartridge that we all swear by and you'd think by now we'd have mastered the reloading of it, but it do have problems./beagle
The most important advice is to find a bullet/mould/design with a nose that fits. Most Winchesters from my experience run right at .300". Maybe a little over. Marlins may go as high as .301+. If your bullet has a nose that want fit, a throating reamer and about 5 minutes fixes that if you choose that route.
Often times, we shoot ourselves in the foot on .30/30s with sizing. We come tearing out to a shop like I have that is unheated, crank up the sizer, Start GCing and lubing bullets and tend to expand the bullet nose to ovecome the lube being hard due to temp. Lyman's 311440 and 311291 are really bad about it if the fit is close. Seating the check or running through a cold sizer can expand that nose and give you problems. I use a nose first sizer if at all possible on the .30/30.
The other problem with the .30/30 is case length. Choose a batch and cut to the same length. Makes crimping easier and more uniform. Don't overcrimp with the .30/30. Shoulders buckle easy.
It's amazing. The one cartridge that we all swear by and you'd think by now we'd have mastered the reloading of it, but it do have problems./beagle
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
The 30/30 WCF can be wonderfully accurate, as Ben's results bear out. It is a near-perfect cast bullet caliber, too--and the user can run castings to the caliber's full velocity potential with 150-180 grain bullets using old school lubed bullets and gas checks.
And let's not forget that the stellar accuracy of the 22 PPC and 6mm PPC comes from the 7.62 x 39 parent case.
And let's not forget that the stellar accuracy of the 22 PPC and 6mm PPC comes from the 7.62 x 39 parent case.
Spindrift
Well-Known Member
A little trick I found useful for the 30/30;
Especially with PC, you might experience that the max allowed COL leaves the crimp groove just below the mouth of the case with certain bullets, making crimping more difficult.
I've trimmed some 30/30 cases using the trim guide for the slightly shorter .308win. These 30/30 cases can then be crimped using a .308 crimp die.
Especially with PC, you might experience that the max allowed COL leaves the crimp groove just below the mouth of the case with certain bullets, making crimping more difficult.
I've trimmed some 30/30 cases using the trim guide for the slightly shorter .308win. These 30/30 cases can then be crimped using a .308 crimp die.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
I did the simular with our 1876 repro in 50-95. The 285 grain bullet was a joke so we went to 350 grains but the crimp was below the mouth. Have no desire to change bullets so our brass got cut about .10 to accommodate the groove.
When that bullet hits something those 70+ grains make a big difference. A case of 3F Goex gets to 1550+ fps and does 2.25" off cross sticks at 100. Puts big smiles in my heart when a ground hog gets in the way.
When that bullet hits something those 70+ grains make a big difference. A case of 3F Goex gets to 1550+ fps and does 2.25" off cross sticks at 100. Puts big smiles in my heart when a ground hog gets in the way.
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
Gotta love that!
The late NV Curmudgeon and I ran into a similar issue with our Marlin 1894CL rifles in 25/20--the usual Lyman suspects (#257420 and #257312) would not chamber due to the bullet's front drive band being too long to fit in the non-existent throats when seated so the crimp groove met the case mouth. My Marlin 27-S has similar issues.
Our fix was to trim back our 25/20 brass to 1.275" length from the on-spec 1.302", and set the crimp in the intended groove. Success--the front edge of the bullet's front drive band just kisses the leade, and ejects without drama. Life is good.
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
Apparently, because I cast and shot many tens-of-pounds of lead cast of a ventless and ancient Ideal 308291, also known as a Lyman 311291, in my '55 dated Model 94.
Can't remember where, but read that the bullet was designed for the 1894/94.
Would not be my first choice, but I would not rulwe it out either?
Missionary
Well-Known Member
My first High power round was through a .32 Special Winchester Marlin.
todd
Well-Known Member
my first rifle was a 1972 '94 Winchester in 30-30 that my grandfather bought second hand. i still have it, but i gave to JES Reboring and he an awesome job on a 35/30-30.
i use a 30-40 Krag with H4198 that goes 1930fps with a 173gr Ranch Dog. my oldest son has shot a doe behind the shoulder at 173 yards. it went thru-n-thru and along the it trashed the back of the lungs.
100 yards dug up inside a dirt pile after it went thru the target and a piece of 3/4" waferboard.
just sayin i'd use it if it was a 30-30.
i use a 30-40 Krag with H4198 that goes 1930fps with a 173gr Ranch Dog. my oldest son has shot a doe behind the shoulder at 173 yards. it went thru-n-thru and along the it trashed the back of the lungs.
100 yards dug up inside a dirt pile after it went thru the target and a piece of 3/4" waferboard.
just sayin i'd use it if it was a 30-30.
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Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
Going by memory here, but I read while researching heavy for caliber bullets in various calibers, an article by Frank Marshal on cast loadings for the 30-30. He was loading the 311284 which weighs in at 210 to 218 depending. Anyway I don’t have anything but drawings to compare the 311291 and the 311284 but the noses look similar to me. In preparation Frank would put the 284’s in a little jig he made and hit them with a file to further blunt the noses.
The interesting part of the article for me was the performance of this heavy 311284, which I don’t own, and Frank’s reference to the Walt’s NEI 308220, which I do own. Frank said he thought the NEI bullet would preform as good and had a nose profile that was perfectly fine in tubular magazines.
30-30 150, 32SPL, 30-30 with the NEI 220, 35 REM 200, and a 348 200.
My point is that while the 311291 and 311284 are slightly more pointy, they shouldn’t cause a problem in tubular magazines.
The reason I say that comes from a member here who shall remain nameless other than he’s lost himself in building and shooting front stuffers over in Western Texas. Kinda a rocket scientist kind of a geek. But exceptionally informative and inventive.
Anyway Ian pointed out that if you take the 30-30 or any of the standard cartridges used in tubular magazines and laid them on a flat surface bullet to base it becomes obvious that the pointy end will be against the brass rim of the cartridges just ahead and not the primer. These are tapered case after all and gravitational pull will have an effect.
Ian pointed that out when I was inquiring about the catastrophic explosions everyone here’s about but can never point to one in the wild. Yes there have been I think about 3 but they were working to create that explosion. At that time I used the picture above to illustrate my question “are round nose bullets safe in tubular magazines”.
Ian pointed out that the 4 factory Remington loadings were safe and the lawyers agreed.
So this gave me the “head slap moment” when I thought about it and dismissed all the BS I’ve heard over the years at gun shows and gun store coffee pots.
I have slept like a baby ever since, well except for the middle of the night bathroom trip.
Blue nylonntip, was a FEDERAL NYCLAD or something of that sort?
Snakeoil
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with the effect of gravity. And I doubt many use a 30-30 for duck hunting or coon hunting which would require that the barrel be held vertically. I do have personal experience with one mag tube explosion. It was with a pistol caliber in a Henry replica. The rifle was vertical or damn close to vertical and in the process of being loaded. The owner let the spring-loaded follower slip out of his hand. I don't remember how many rounds when off, but it was more than 2. I want to say 5. It blew the mag tube apart and he had multiple operations on his hand to fix the damage. It happened at a club near Weedsport that hosted cowboy shoots.
Getting back to the 30-30 and thinking about the physics involved, I wonder if the risk is greater with only 2 rounds in the mag? This would put the lightest spring pressure on the rounds. I wonder just how far that the rounds can/will move in the tube under recoil and then slam home again. It is hard to imagine it would happen with enough force to set off a primer. And rifle primers are harder than pistol primers. It could very well be that the use of flat-nosed bullets in tubular mags goes all the way back to pistol caliber rifles and was just maintained over the years. That said, it was enough of a concern, imaginary or not for Savage and Winchester to develop stacking mags for lever guns to allow the use of spitzers. And yes, I realize that a spitzer is not a RN bullet.
Glaciers
Alaska Land of the Midnight Sun
I understand your example with the straight wall pistol calibers. I do believe that the rifle traditional cartridges that are tapered would not be of concern.
I certainly don’t recommend any shape other then flat or a genuine round nose bullet.
There is always an exception to the rule, but I think they are truly the exception.
I certainly don’t recommend any shape other then flat or a genuine round nose bullet.
There is always an exception to the rule, but I think they are truly the exception.
I don't have a problem with it.... like others have demonstrated, a factory 170gr is about as round as the 291.... besides, I typically get lazy and use a flat nose punch when I run them thru the sizer. I have plenty other things to worry about.
I have a 30/30 and 3 BOs. Then I found I could get 150gr cast performance (~ 100 fps less than 30/30), cheaper to shoot, less recoil. IIRC from somewhere, experts stated that the rim on the 30/30 reduced the possibility of mag tube explosion from 'pointy' bullets. After an experience with the x39 (AK) I have no interest in it.