Calling Bruce! Help with developing BP patch lube.

[Ian]

What about castor oil? A popular BPCR lube here is 50/50 beewax and castor oil.

I did a quick search and literally stumbled upon this. It kinda sounds like it is exactly what you are looking for. Used in cosmetics.

PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil
Okay
Used for conditioning, thickener, and to keep product from separating into oil and water components. This is made from Castor oil that's been thickened by hydrogenation, then processed with polyethylene glycol.

This is an off-white solid that's water soluble in warm water, considered to be safe and mild in cosmetics. The main difference between PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil and PEG-40 Castor Oil is that the Hydrogenated Castor Oil is more solid at room temperature, and it has less of a "Castor" scent. [Hunting (Conditioning) pg 318].
See also: PEG Hydrogenation Castor oil PEG-40 Castor oil

Here is the website where I found it.

PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil

www.tightlycurly.com

I've seen that too, it's in my "little black book" of lube ingredients. Thanks for the mental jog.

 

[Ian]

Did some patch lube testing today using the Kibler .45 and the usual tight .445 ball/.018" ticking combination.

Started with straight PAG 100 AC oil. It's better than Ballistol but it took a range rod to ram the balls home and after three shots needed some water. Cleaned up with plain water and switched to 50/50 water/PAG 100 mix on the patches. Very hard to start and ram those home, lots of stick-stop-stick-stop. Shot several rounds and they did well, just too hard to get down the barrel. Fouling was light and didn't build up. Better than ballistol/water, not quite as good as Hoppe's 9+.

On to Bruce's idea. So I have 1/3 bottle left over from my first reloading kit purchase circa 1992, it hasn't changed much, still thick and sticky. Tried it straight on the patches, that gummed up the rifling in three shots. Still could seat the balls but very slow-stiff. I don't know how much it increased velocity but it was a bunch! Plain water cleaned it fairly well but to get the last bit out I needed some water from the half bottle with one drop of dish detergent in it to wet a patch. Next I went through several increasing dilutions ending up with one part case lube and two parts water, probably could go much more diluted but stopped there because it was working well. The stuff maintains goo lubricity even diluted and the water addition controlled the remaining fouling. Had a nice film of powder residue and lube that maintained for a dozen shots without cleaning and didn't seem to need cleaning even then. I like it. Maybe even better than Hoppe's 9+ on account of it being slightly easier to get this tight ball/patch combination down the barrel.

The last three of the dozen with 2:1 water/case lube were sbot for a group at 50 yards, resulting in this group:



That's actually sideways, should rotate 90⁰ clockwise. Anyway, I'm happy with that.

So at this point I'm going to have to test the case lube outside the bottle and see if it dries out. I'm thinking of trying to pre-treat patches with the full strength case lube and wet them just before loading. The only other issue is the perpetual one of the patch drying out after being loaded for a few minutes, especially in a hot barrel. Other than that, the case lube worked great and tastes a helluva lot better than the PAG oil.

So what is the case lube? I have it figured out all the way down to a chemical trade name and approximate molecular weight, but if RCBS doesn't want it known (and they don't) I'm not going to spoil their secret.

 

[fiver]

sounds like a winner.
i was gonna suggest lee case lube AKA electricians wire pulling stuff,,, AKA a thick soap.

 

[Ian]

There are a couple different formulations of wire pulling gel, I remember going down that rabbit hole in the past. I'm thinking they don't dry out....big plus. Will check into that again because those products are widely available in stores and are very inexpensive compared to case lube.

I have a couple more ideas for grocery store/pharmacy available products, too.

 

[fiver]

we used to use kind of the same thing to lubricate the rubber on vickerman clamps.
it didn't dry out unless it sat out open for like a year or two, then it was simply a matter of stirring in a little water to bring it back.

 

[Mitty38]

I was playing with coconut oil and lubri-film. (A food grade lubricant for processing machines). Melted together with Neutrogena face bar soap, to make it a little pasty.
On a patch. Kept in a container moist. Of they dried out a bit, just spit on them
Was having pretty good results. But then I got side tracked.
Washed out really easy. With dawn and water. After about 10 rounds.
Never.took it.any farther. Got side tracked.
Just figured I would throw that out there.
Not very messy at all.
But did make my skin soft and my fingers smell nice.

 

[Mainiac]

I like bear oil as good as anything.
Hard to beat spit patch,mine is high fiber style,cause i always have a dip of copehagen in my gum....

 

[Mainiac]

I can remember shooting swiss fff at one time,it shot well,with alot of power,but had a really hard fouling cake,,so i determined that it was a pain i didnt need.

 

[bruce381]

lets just say the case lube has all the things you asked about in you earlier post and RCBS dose not have the formula.
There are PAG variation in the same oir thinner vis that basically has a "cloud Point" in that at varying temps say the temp say 100F the Polymer will come out of the water solution and stick to hot metal as a INSOLUBLE oil then when temp is below the cloud point it will become water soluble again and wash off again. Funny stuff when you try to wash of hands if you use hot water is acts finda like and oil.

 

[bruce381]

duh double typed same thing deleted sorry

 

[oscarflytyer]

and just after posting the Old Zip Patch Lube I see this! Interested as well. I made the Old Zip (saw it in Dixie Gun Works/hate Bore Butter) AND had beeswax and mutton tallow, so...

 

[Rick H]

.....and once again, down the rabbit hole we go.

For THIS Muzzleloader season it will be TOW Mink Oil on a .018" patch with .530 round ball. Heading to the Upper Peninsula with the flinter to see if a buck is stupid enough to wander in front of me. Who knows what I may use next year.

 

[oscarflytyer]

LOL Rick. And yeah, I read a LOT about using mink oil. Remember too, I made up mine a lot because I already had the tallow.

 

[bruce381]

IAN let me know more thoughts on the RCBS case lube tests and let me see what I have, Also you can make a nice thick oil constituency from thick to gel Tall Oil /caustic salt blend " a simple soap" or called an Amide. I have some polymer that will gel water at 1%-2% wt like making hair gel stuff or hand sanitizer or the gel they use for ultrasound will that help? Mix that with the PAG will keep water is solution.

 

[Ian]

IAN let me know more thoughts on the RCBS case lube tests and let me see what I have, Also you can make a nice thick oil constituency from thick to gel Tall Oil /caustic salt blend " a simple soap" or called an Amide. I have some polymer that will gel water at 1%-2% wt like making hair gel stuff or hand sanitizer or the gel they use for ultrasound will that help? Mix that with the PAG will keep water is solution.

Case lube straight made a real thick goo in the bore, diluted it maybe 50-50 with water and it worked really well. Only problem is the smoke from it made me feel funny after shooting for a while. The PAG oil iso 100 straight ac oil worked pretty well when mixed with water too, but I didn't think to combine all three.


Just like with smokeless powder, my guns tell me they don't like a lube that's too slippery and one of the smoothbores won't group at all with my water/PAG/polyolester mix, but shoots great with spit patches.

 

[fiver]

slippery bore?