First go with the 300 BLK

[Ian]

Photos would be MUCH appreciated, and exact COAL where you get nose contact, and whether or not you can crimp in the groove. You will likely want to crimp in the groove, I had better results that way (with the powder I'm using, FWIW).

What alloy did you use? If they make 12 bhn air cooled they'll be fine. I asked about the nose on the NOE group buy thread a while back and it killed the thread right there, just crickets ever since. I was afraid that based on every other NOE mould I've ever bought or used they'd be too fat to work properly even with watered-down alloy, looks like this is no different?

Josh's bullet FITS with 2/1/1 CWW/SWW/soft that makes a .303" nose out of a .301" spec'd nose on some NOE moulds. I can seat them out far enough to scrape both ends of the magazine (2.225" if memory serves, I usually go 2.218" or so) and that puts the mouth of the case in the middle of the top lube groove with cases at 1.something63" trim length and more than half the front band in the throat's freebore. The nose absolutely fits the throats of both my rifles with no bind and full support, even with a dirty chamber, but there's hardly any unsupported space and the bullet corks the bore up tight right away as soon as it budges forward when fired. Maybe that's why they shoot so well even with me cramming the ammo together on a progressive with no special care or special seating die?

 

[Brad]

I will need to seat one of the sized bullets and see how it fits the throat.
Photos will be taken.
Alloy is range scrap, about 1.75% Sb, .5% Sn. Air cooled will run 11BHn or so.

Not heat treating would make it better, it eliminates a step.

I need to make a .309 die for the Star. I have a .308 and a .310 but they are either too small or too big.

 

[freebullet]

I have a 309 star die. Yer welcome to use it for your test if you'd like.

 

[Brad]

What? And deny myself the "need" to make one?
Blasphemy!

 

[freebullet]

Lol, well if you get all froggy I'm missing star dies in the following sizes-
310
311
312
278
226
Maybe a couple others.

If you create those by accident I'll come get them.

 

[Rick]

Lol, well if you get all froggy I'm missing star dies in the following sizes-

Hhmmm . . . . Frog dies. Yeah, it does have a ring to it.

.

 

[freebullet]

Does that mean I'd have to kiss them to make sure they're real?

 

[Rick]

Does that mean I'd have to kiss them to make sure they're real?

Hhmmm . . . Prince Frog Dies? I dunno, what do you think?

 

[freebullet]

I'd bet a dollar Kevin would make that a permanent name change if requested.

 

[Rick]

hehe . . . Do you want to send the PM or should I?

 

[freebullet]

I better let you. He might not let me get the check expander if I do. I'm probably out on the dies anyway now

 

[Brad]

Got a sizer made. It is about perfect. I can run bullets thru my Lee push thru to size then use this die to lube. The bullets barely touch the die for the Star, very low impact on the sizer. I am sizing to .3095. Bullet is not scuffed by the throat.

Ok Ian, here are some photos.


That one is seated a little long. I will be seating to crimp at the very top of the groove.


Feeds fine thru the magazine. Gives me enough room for error.



Nose is far enough to just kiss the lands. Not thrilled with that but as long as I don't get stupid it should be fine. Wouldn't want to do that with jacketed.

To prevent that engraving I would have to seat much deeper, like .050 or more.

Will load 10 rounds and see how it goes then work from there.

 

[freebullet]

Looking good. My 9mm & 3030 like it cramed it the throat. Long as your spring will slam it home I wouldn't worry at all.

 

[Ian]

THANKS BRAD! Sounds like your sizing operation is all sorted out. The pics are exactly what I was looking for. Think ya used enough crimp there?

That little bite that the lands are making is exactly what I was expecting and why I didn't buy one when they were available. See, the ACE bullet is a tiny bit smaller right in that area (about .2995" with my alloy) and has to be pushed in another 20 thousandths or so past where you have yours seated and crimped before it makes firm contact with the throat...which is perfection when you shoot an auto-loader, particularly with a suppressor and dirty loads. I suppose if one scrutinized the drawing, the ACE mould isn't exactly cut to specs, it's better. If only OvertonAR and the others clamoring for Al to copy the ACE design had researched further, done some throat casts, and fixed that little nose issue beforehand, that would have been a truly great design. I'm surprised no one seemed to learn ANYTHING in the past few years from the results of the NOE 311-247 Whisper which had nose troubles even worse, to the point of being useless in most 300 Blackouts.

What I really, really wish is that we could design a mould with a nose just like the bullets my mould casts, make that top groove a real crimp groove, squinch the two remaining lube grooves just a hair closer together, and trim enough off the base to make it 220 grains. Oh, and have Tom be able to cut it with that pointy nose, that way we could have his super-awesome alignment pins and thick sprue plates. If I can get the nose pointing trick worked out a little better, I might think very seriously about drawing up a final for Tom with the nose specs splitting the tolerance down the middle and finish the nose points myself. This might trump the .35-caliber plain base design project I have going.

 

[Ian]

Here's what I'm talking about. I actually chambered and ejected the loaded round before the picture, note no marks on the bullet except for a very slight freebore scuff near the parting line and two light scratches on the ogive from the feed ramps that you can't see in the picture either. The bare bullet was dropped into the throat where it "plunks" the first band against the beginning of the leade taper at the end of the throat's freebore, then a couple of very light taps on a brass rod pushed it forward about 1/4 the width of the front driving band where you see the scuff all the way around and the lands starting to etch the nose. I checked again and the COAL of the one in the pic is 2.220" on the money.

These were both sized to .3098" with my Lee push through die, the throat's freebore is a parallel, dead-on .310" by the pound cast.


Also, this is a Radical Firearms complete upper with the five-groove barrel, should be exactly the same chamber as yours.

 

[Brad]

Decided to load up 10 rounds over 10 gr of 4227 and head to the indoor range. Twenty five yards isn't the best distance for shooting a rifle but it would let me see if the action cycles with the load.

OMG is it quiet. There were a few other guys there with ARs in 223. The noise difference is like a target 38 vs a hot 125 gr 357 mag load. No harsh blast. It reminds me of shooting my 32-20.

The action cycled as it should. First round was single loaded in a magazine. Strips fine when bolt is closed, bolt locked open on empty mag. I loaded the other 9 in the magazine and t ran perfectly and locked open on empty mag.

I am really excited about this bullet and load. I can see a range trip with a box of clays and a few hundred of this load. Clays on a berm at 100 yards won't be safe.

 

[Ian]

Told you so!

That pistol-length gas system makes finding a load that will function the rifle MUCH easier, that's excellent for first time out! You said you had a decent supply of that powder? GOOD! 700 rounds a pound sounds like a lot, but.....you'll see.

If you want really quiet, like no ears no problem quiet, that can be arranged too, but unless you have a private range where you don't have to don the ears on account of other shooters around you there's not much point.

 

[Brad]

I have probably 7 pounds of the powder. I will need to get a ton more bullets cast up. Sure wish Al had a 4 cav mould for sale, he was out so I got a 2 cav. I probably ought to cast a few thousand. And buy a bunch more brass.

 

[Ian]

My 300 BLK ARs replaced all my .22 rimfire shooting except for pistols, might for you too. Not counting brass, which looks to have a life of 10+ reloadings for subs, my cost including lead is only a dime a pop. More like 6 cents if I used scrounged lead and TulAmmo 223 primers and forget about amortizing the cost of brass.

Brass I don't fret about too much, lots of guys want to make their own and that's fine, but I made a few with a borrowed HF mini chop saw and by the time I was done converting 20 of them and annealing necks, that brand-new Federal brass at 26 cents a case with proper neck thickness (not usually possible with converted .223 or 5.56) and proper factory anneal looked pretty good so I invested in it instead of a big box of military range brass.

 

[freebullet]

I like that giant rear driving band.

It seems like it would be a good one to test the limits of pb bullets with.

I shouldn't be surprised by Brad going to a warm indoor range. Shouldn't be....