.22 Hornet problem

[Dick West]

I’ve got a H&R Topper in .22 Hornet that I like a lot. 1/12” twist

It shoots very accurately with jacketed 40g and 45g bullets pushed by 4227.

I had hoped it would do well with the 55 grain Lee cast bullets. But I can’t seem to get better than 2” groups at 50 yards. I've tried 4227, Red Dot and Lil Gun.

Any tips? Increase or decrease velocity?

Or do I just need to bite the bullet and get a 40-45 grain bullet mold?

One other thing, I bought a pound of Lil Gun to try out and the loads listed in my manuals with both lead and jacketed bullets are hot for this rifle. I get cratered primers and sticky opening with anything over about 11 grains (and accuracy isn't good). Is that common?

 

[Ben]

I don't have a 22 Hornet rifle, but I do have a factory 22 K Hornet barrel T/C Contender single shot pistol.

I've always shot fast burning powder like B'Eye, Unique, Amer. Select.
Mine loves the 44 grain, 225438.

" K-Hornet " may join this conversation ?
I'm certain he would have some ideas that would be helpful to you.

Ben

 

[Will]

I'm not familiar with the 22 hornet but when I see 1-12" twist I start thinking short light bullets. Probably around 40gr.

May try something like the 37gr offered by NOE although I bet them little bullets will make you want to rip your hair out sizing and lubing them.

 

[JSH]

These break open guns as a rule do not respond well to what one does with a bolt of lever gun. The full length gas checks will cover a lot of things, while cast may make you expand your vocabulary.

I quit fooling with the hornet in the TC some years back. I never did shoot cast in mine. But, here is the way in a nut shell I do my 32-20's.
As always size is king.
FL size on first firing
I use a Lyman Mdie to bell
I seat the bullet out to engage rifling if possible
I even seat some so they finish seating when the gun is closed.
You want the rim back against the frame,this is where your headspace issues will cause you grief. Don't worry about seating it flush with the barrel. I use a feeler gauge to see how much slop I have.
Fire
I then partial neck size
M die
And so on
You might look at Mike Bellms angle on this. He thinks his thoughts are written in stone,there not. He runs full tilt loads, so his sizing thoughts have merit and he has helped a lot of folks.
225415 early SC and I am about 2.5-3.0 of SR 7625 gives me about 1050 and 1/2"-3/4"@100 out of my little savage rifle.
I have not crowded it with magnum powders and cast.

 

[Ian]

Good post, JSH. My A2 does fine with Lee bullets at 62 grains, and it has a 12 twist. It also requires the complete opposite of the jam-fit-everything technique, being an autoloader. Heat-treated 50/50 alloy RX-7 gets it done in a couple of very narrow windows.

Lil' Gun is one of those powders (like Titegroup) that gets SPOOKY near the top end with pressure excursions, so no surprise there.

 

[RicinYakima]

225415 early SC and I am about 2.5-3.0 of SR 7625 gives me about 1050 and 1/2"-3/4"@100 out of my little savage rifle.

This is the only cast bullet and 3.0 grains of SR7625 that will shoot from my Savage 23D Hornet also.

 

[fiver]

going to a 55 gr boolit is a 20% increase in weight, as well as an increase in length.
many hornets struggle with copper wrapped bullets when the weight goes up, unwrapped would just compound the issue.

I don't have a hornet, but if I did it would have a little faster twist rate [not an option for you]
so your only choice is velocity.
which sucks because the weight is gonna hamper that.
my next try would involve a little harder alloy and as much oomph as I could muster.
then I'd move along from there.

 

[Eutectic]

There was a little girl,

Who had a little curl,

Right in the middle of her forehead.

When she was good,

She was very, very, good,

But when she was bad she was horrid.


BY HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW

I've had a half century plus...... in an intimate relationship with the .22 Hornet.

Since Lil'Gun hit the market I have used a couple 8 pounders of it just in the Hornet.

NOTHING better describes the Hornet/Lil'Gun relationship that Longfellow's poem above.!!

NOTHING will beat Lil'Gun in the Hornet for performance.... But you have to control the TPC! (Time Pressure Curve) IF one keeps the TPC ever so slightly below a 'sharp spike' it is amazing how much 'horsepower' you can get out of a Hornet at perfectly sane pressures! I shoot mostly cast in the Hornet these days; but I've shot 1000's of ground squirrels with a HSP (similar to a WW .22WMR bullet) that I swage from double drawed (read tapered jacket) .22 Long Rifle casings. My point to all this is I swage a 43gr HSP bullet. WHY 43gr ??? Because it 'balances' the TPC exactly to make performance and accuracy just like the line above "She was very, very, good"...... I tried a 50gr HSP that I make for the .221 Fire Ball in my 12" twist T/C Hornet barrel.... Working up I too got crated primers as Dick mentioned in the original post! When Lil'Gun pressure spikes it does it "quick, fast, and in a hurry!" Lil'Gun can be "horrid".....

I have not had heavy cast bullets (50grs +) shoot anything outstanding in any of my Hornets...... Lyman 225415 is a pretty good bullet.... This is the earlier design that casts for me at 47grs. Newer molds in this number are a newer design that is heavier.
BY far my best cast accuracy is from a NOE mold for their 37gr GC design. It is very similar to Lyman's discontinued 225107. This is an accurate bullet even at 3000fps for me in my 12" twist or even my old Savage with 1 in 16"! This would be the mold I would recommend for the Hornet.

Pete

 

[shootnlead]

My Handi Rifle in .22 Hornet will only shoot up to 45grs, accurately. As the weight goes up, the group widens. If I could get a decent trigger on it...it would be VERY accurate, but that trigger is a bear.

 

[.22-5-40]

I don't think your 1-12" twist should be a problem with 55gr. cast. I have a Shillen barrled Borchardt .22 Hornet with 1-14" twist that shoots 52gr. cast very well at 100yds. What size is your bullet? Are you using gas-checks? what lube? & alloy? Are you using a Lyman M die to slightly expand case mouth?

 

[Dick West]

What size is your bullet? Are you using gas-checks? what lube? & alloy? Are you using a Lyman M die to slightly expand case mouth?

I'm sizing to .225. Gas checks. Tumbled Ben's liquid. Using NOE neck expander. I think I'm going to have to try a 45g or less cast bullet.

I'm thinking the 45g NOE looks like it makes sense in a 12/1 twist barrel.

 

[Ben]

One of the things I hoped to accomplish with my earlier post was to show the accuracy potential of a 44 gr. bullet in the Hornet.

Ben

 

[Goatwhiskers]

JSH, re: your remark about having the rim back against the frame reminds me of the Ruger 77/22 I acquired some time back. The previous owner said the best he could get was about 1 1/2" groups. I changed to A1680 which got me to 3/4" avg. Then I got to thinking about the manufacturing slop in that 2 piece bolt so I shimmed it such that you can barely feel the bolt close on the rim, essentially zero slack in headspace. You can darn near drive tacks with the thing now. GW

 

[KHornet]

It is my experience with hornets & K's, that MOST, with twists of 1 1/4-1 1/2 are best
served shooting bullets of 50 gr(Max) and preferably 45 gr. and smaller. As in most all
things in life there are exceptions, but you don't know until you try. My most accurate
hornet/K Hornet bullet is 225438 HP at 42gr., but also have great results with the 37 gr
NOE both plain base and GC.

Paul

 

[JSH]

I will admit to being a speed freak,just not with the hornet.
I shot a lot of 55 gr FMJ's and 50-55 out of a 10" TC hornet years back. Danged if I can remember the load, I tried a lot of powders. A gent out of Texas gave me a load and darned if it didn't shoot as good as he said it would.

 

[JonB]

SNIP...

I've had a half century plus...... in an intimate relationship with the .22 Hornet.

Since Lil'Gun hit the market I have used a couple 8 pounders of it just in the Hornet.

...SNIP

I have not had heavy cast bullets (50grs +) shoot anything outstanding in any of my Hornets...... Lyman 225415 is a pretty good bullet.... This is the earlier design that casts for me at 47grs. Newer molds in this number are a newer design that is heavier.
BY far my best cast accuracy is from a NOE mold for their 37gr GC design. It is very similar to Lyman's discontinued 225107. This is an accurate bullet even at 3000fps for me in my 12" twist or even my old Savage with 1 in 16"! This would be the mold I would recommend for the Hornet.

Pete

Pete,
do you use lil'gun with cast bullets? or only with jacketed?
Jon

 

[Eutectic]

Pete,
do you use lil'gun with cast bullets? or only with jacketed?
Jon

Jon,

I used it for both...... Although jacketed loads were used for the most part. I make a hollow point version of the 37gr NOE that I hunt ground squirrels with (if this winter ever ends!) While Lil'Gun is accurate; Alliant 410 is even more so. Speed is less at 2850fps but you'd never know it on impact. My buddies call it the "cast V-Max"!

I find my .32-20 wolf loads (which I have along while hunting Blue Grouse) also shoot very accurate at full power with Lil'Gun. Again.... this with a gascheck.... I haven't had the best accuracy with Lil'Gun and plain base cast...... or reduced loads for that matter for what it's worth.

Pete

 

[9.3X62AL]

It is "early days" with my CZ-527 Lux in 22 Hornet (1-16" twist), and it has done well with a couple each of 40 and 45 grain jacketed bullets. I don't expect good things from heavier bullets--some 40 grain V-Max I tried were none too spectacular once we proceeded past 50 yards, owing to their extended length per weight. Standard Hornet 40s & 45s did fine, though. The Speer 45 grainer running AA-1680 seems to be its "pet load" so far, "Book" loads from 2300-2600 FPS all shoot about the same. "Urny" over on the old site is very fond of the 35 grain Hornady and AA-1680, which will be my next venture. Lyman #225438 will come along eventually, I have about 400 of those tiny monsters on deck and ready.

 

[Dick West]

It is "early days" with my CZ-527 Lux in 22 Hornet (1-16" twist), and it has done well with a couple each of 40 and 45 grain jacketed bullets. I don't expect good things from heavier bullets--some 40 grain V-Max I tried were none too spectacular once we proceeded past 50 yards, owing to their extended length per weight. Standard Hornet 40s & 45s did fine, though. The Speer 45 grainer running AA-1680 seems to be its "pet load" so far, "Book" loads from 2300-2600 FPS all shoot about the same. "Urny" over on the old site is very fond of the 35 grain Hornady and AA-1680, which will be my next venture. Lyman #225438 will come along eventually, I have about 400 of those tiny monsters on deck and ready.

Thanks everybody.
I'm going to try one more time with the Lee 55gr. In the Hornet, then shop for a lighter bullet.
But here's where I'm confused about twist rate vs. bullet weight:
My CZ .222 with 1/14" twist shoots the Lee 55g very well.
My Topper with 1/12" does NOT shoot the 55g well at all.
I know they are different cartridges, but, Theoretically, shouldn't the topper do better with heavier bullets than the CZ?

 

[Dick West]

My Handi Rifle.... If I could get a decent trigger on it...it would be VERY accurate, but that trigger is a bear.

My topper had a crazy heavy trigger too. I took it apart and polished the contact surfaces. Now it's great. Reassembly is A PITA until you get the hang of it. And the usual cautions apply.