.22lr vs Pellet Lead

[Brad]

I got lousy penetration with the 250 XTP on deer in the Marlin. Sure expanded though!
Too fast with a fat, stubby HP is not a good thing. A 45 doesn’t really need to expand to make an impact, so to say.

My in-line Ml load used the Lyman 457122 HP cast of pure lead, sized .452, loaded with a sabot. Shot great, expand like no tomorrow, and always have an exit hole. And what an exit hole it was. I believe 4 deer met that load and all found it deadly.

 

[fiver]

you guys all have the opposite problem i had.
which i know are all speed related.
i was too slow, you guys were too fast.... LOL

 

[Tomme boy]

All I ever used to use in my muzzle loaders were the 240 gr xtp bullets. Under 40 yds the bullet grenaded in the deer. Over 50 yds it passed right through like a pencil. I went to a Precision Extreme 40 cal 235gr swaged tipped boat tail lead in a sabot and all bullets would be found on the opposite side of the deer under the hide, or a 50 cent piece hole out the side. This was using 150grs of powder. I never chronoed them but 1900-2000 fps was expected. Almost every deer I ever shot with it was around 60 yds max. One was 10 feet with the xtp. Never found a single piece of that bullet.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

The only XTP I used extensively was the 180g .357. This was when Hornady discontinued the 180 SSP. I fould it well
Constructed for the 2100 fps I shot it @. I took under a doz deer with it from 20-100 yards. Never recovered a bullet.

The SSP would come apart inside 35-40 on big bones. I recovered many pieces. (Probably shot 2 dozen with them thru the years)

I took a few with 44 in muzzle Loaders as described by other guys and they worked well I have one recovered in perfect mushroom. But dont remember major bones impacted.

The FTX line I have used allot more and every one has been "softer" then preferred. But not excessively negatively so.

CW

 

[richhodg66]

I know crosman pellets are said to have a good bit of antimony in them… they’re certainly harder than jsb, daisy, etc.
The only hardness testing I’ve seen done on pellets was on the GTA site using pencils to test with.
Crosman and gamo pellets came out at 7 to 9 bhn if I remember right, most other brands were pretty much 6 to 7 bhn I believe… it’s been awhile since I read that.

I never realized air gun pellets were made of anything but pure, soft lead. Out in my stash, I have a coffee can full of spent pellets from when my team was allowed to shoot lead, I policed them up and have used some for casting assuming it was pure.

A few years ago, our higher headquarters ordered us to stop using lead pellets, it ticked me off and I tried a few types, eventually settling on the Predator pellets the CMP recommends. I was curious what they are made of so sent a sample along with the ones Daisy made and from Champion's Choice German made ones, all were pure tin for all intents and purposes, I think each had about a tenth of one percent of nickel or copper, but I've been using the spent ones as tin in alloys since.

There may bean accuracy difference between these and lead, but with ameteur level shooters and entry level rifles, I highly doubt I'd ever be able to tell. We do go through a whole lot of them each year.

 

[358156 hp]

I've heard handgun hunters complain about 240 XTPs as well. I used to use hot handloads with the old Hornady 265 gr. Interlock flat point, designed for the 444 Marlin, and never had a complaint. Unfortunately, I never recovered a bullet to examine. If I were to go handgun hunting again, bullet selection would be based on what I had on hand, already cast and ready to go.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I never realized air gun pellets were made of anything but pure, soft lead. Out in my stash, I have a coffee can full of spent pellets from when my team was allowed to shoot lead, I policed them up and have used some for casting assuming it was pure.

A few years ago, our higher headquarters ordered us to stop using lead pellets, it ticked me off and I tried a few types, eventually settling on the Predator pellets the CMP recommends. I was curious what they are made of so sent a sample along with the ones Daisy made and from Champion's Choice German made ones, all were pure tin for all intents and purposes, I think each had about a tenth of one percent of nickel or copper, but I've been using the spent ones as tin in alloys since.

There may bean accuracy difference between these and lead, but with ameteur level shooters and entry level rifles, I highly doubt I'd ever be able to tell. We do go through a whole lot of them each year.

I know they make zinc pellets. So apparently "hard" works... I woulda thought pure as well!

 

[richhodg66]

When we were ordered to switch to the non-lead pellets, we encoutered some problems. The older, Daisy/Avanti rifles we had didn't seem to like them, at least the Daisy ones we started with. Kinda learned to make them work with the CMP recommended Predators, but another problem is that since the tin ones are both lighter and much harder, the pellet traps which worked great with lead, will have pellets bounce back out through the cardboard target backers, very rarely will they make it back as far as the kids on the firing line, but it does occasinally happen. I'm a real prick about everybody wearing eye protection on the range, shooting or not. I stand center behind the line of shooters watching and had one hit be in the leg thos past semester, wearing thin khakis at the time, stung more than I'd have guessed but didn't leave a mark. Since I switched to using corrugated plastic instead of cardboard as target backers, the problem was reduced a lot as the stuff is stiffer and tougher.

Never realized there were zinc pellets, I'll have to be careful what I melt down.

 

[burbank.jung]

So, has anyone cast lead bullets from .22lr and lead bullets? I hope to cast lead pellet ingots on Thursday and already have ingots cast from .22lr to compare. But, until a month from then, maybe someone can tell me which is harder?

 

[burbank.jung]

Here is an update from my last post. I had cast ingots using .22lr lead and ingots using pellet lead. I also cast ingots using jhp range scrap. I let the ingots sit for atleast 3 months and tested a few ingots of each yesterday with art pencils. Of them, pellet lead scratched with a 5B pencil (7-8bhn), the .22lr lead scratched with a B/HB/F pencils. The first two left a light scrach I could feel with my thumb nail and F definately left a scratch (13/15/18bhn), and the jacketed bullet lead core lead scratched with a 4B (9Bhn). I have a better source of jacketed bullets so today I'll cast 38-148 and 45-200 SWC bullets with those ingots.

 

[RBHarter]

I don't know if it was ever mentioned or not but the copper wash/plate on the 22LR with the tin involved is the perfect setup to suck up a bunch of copper and make your metal do weird things if it's not expected.

 

[Tomme boy]

CW sent me some of his rf lead. It was very soft but it did have antimony in it. Being swaged bullets that is why it is in there. I have it now mixed with roof flashing and a few lead pipe joints that had a bunch of solder on them. Its what I am using for all of my muzzle loader stuff.

 

[burbank.jung]

I was given the 50cal can of .22lr duds at my club. I'll flatten various bullet brands with a vice and report the hardness of each. When done, I'll report the hardness here later.

 

[Missionary]

We have a caliber .25 that chugs out a 40 grain pellet at 850 fps (piston drive) with at least the same clang on a piece of steel that our .22 Win Wildcats do at 25 yards. Both will terminate average 10-20# ground hogs at 25 yards (usually less around 12 yards) below the ear shots.
And the Air .25 has a baffle so it is rather quiet.