.357 Factory Ammo Selection: 1990s-Vintage Colt King Cobra 4"

[Bisley]

Awright,

I get my Colt back from the gunsmith this week. Says it's in good shape and I believe him. I learned early on, for what I pay a gunsmith, I should be able to learn something about the weapon, or he's not a good gunsmith. That's just my opinion.

In any case. Factory ammo selection. Of course I'm gonna load for the thing. I got the bullets cast and I'm setting up the bench. I am thinking Remington 158-grain SJHP for nightstand drawer use, and Fiocci 158-grain Cowboy action ammunition for range use, and to generate cases. No sense tearing my arm off to demonstrate handgun ownership. This is a Colt, after all, and not a Ruger.

Does anyone have any experience with this brand? It's relatively inexpensive, but I have never fired this brand before. Does the brass load well, and does the factory loading lead the barrel?

If there is a better choice (Black Hills loads a Cowboy lead load for .357, but it's not as cheap), I am all ears. Aside from a few boxes of Remington stuff, what would you recommend for range and reloading?

Bisley

 

[RicinYakima]

Fiocci brand brass, it is my favorite for 32 ACP full CIP (EU standard) loads and it lasts better than anything I have used. I have been told that their inexpensive line of ammo is made by PPU, but I don't know if that is true or rumor. HTH

 

[462]

My only Fiocchi experience was for initial Glock 27 (.40 S&W) familiarization. It fed and functioned, and was accurate enough for its purpose.
It's a very common brand among the brass I pick up at the range.

 

[Rick H]

Way back when, I had to use my service revolver against real flesh and blood. My 4" Model 66 S&W was loaded with Remington 158gr.JHP 357 Magnum ammunition. It was the old stuff loaded to the higher pressures back in the early 70's. The results were less than satisfying. The subject died, but not right away....my rounds penetrated his chest, a thin metal wardrobe cabinet, a drywall interior wall and a drywall, insulation and brick veneer exterior wall of the home. As far as we know they are still flying, we were never able to recover any of them. They showed some signs of expansion, but not a lot.

My point is that old hot Remington 158 JHP load was way overpenetrative. I changed my work load to 140gr. WW silvertip JHP's after that. My thoughts were to have it open sooner and penetrate less.

I would rethink using 158's in the nightstand.

 

[Bisley]

Thank you, Rick.

I appreciate the insight of one who has been there. I am also thinking of a 20 Ga. with an appropriate shot load for home defense. My wife could handle the weight, and the blast is farther from eyes and ears. Until then, I had been considering 125 grain bullets in the .357. Here, I am told the blast is excessive, and you can also damage the topstrap at the barrel-cylinder gap with gas cutting as the round is fired.

The information I have obtained comes from private ballistic lab reports (Luckygunner, YouTube); Mas Ayoob's Gravest Extreme, which I was advised to take with a large grain of salt upon purchase; and fora such as these where LEOs offer experience. I find the latter the most useful. When the virus panic eases, I want to schedule a proper CCW course to go with my permit. I have not had time and money, in the same place, until this year, to do so.

A bullet fired from most angles I could imagine in my home would encounter structure and substance much as you described.

 

[fiver]

all of the Fiocchi ammo I have ever used has been good stuff.
they do have a plant here in the united states, but they might just load shot shell stuff there.

if I had to choose a 357 load for home stuff I'd go with a gold dot bullet.
they got those right at the very beginning and there's no reason to change either the design or try to better the results.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

Two different issues being discussed here:
The performance of Remington 158gr SJHP 357 mag cartridges
AND
the suitability of Fiocchi brass for reloading.

Taking the first issue: Out of a 4" barrel, a 158 gr Semi-jacketed hollow point magnum round will have a decent chance of performing well as a self-defense round. Notwithstanding some particular individual failures, which will occur with any round from time to time, the overall track record of that round is very good. When trying to stack the odds in your favor, there's only so much you can do.

The second issue: Fiocchi brass. I've never had a problem with that brass.

 

[fiver]

back in the olden days they skewed the 357 towards penetration.
there was a lot of engine blocks that needed some crackin ya know.

 

[358156 hp]

Police Departments switched from heavier bullets like the 158 JHP to lighter bullets in the 125 gr range with better reported effectiveness on (ahem) soft targets, There were complications however, first of all, they started cracking forcing cones and accelerating wear on their K frames by a considerable margin. Second, the earth shattering kaboom, and attendant fireball & mushroom clouds were seriously disorienting for the shooters (shootees didn't get a vote), and along with the low capacity of the six-shooters plus the recoil is probably what gave the 9mm semi-autos their big chance. Personally, I keep Winchester or Remington 38 Spl +P lead hollowpoints in my house revolvers, they have an excellent service record, and aren't really abusive to shoot. I have changed the snubbies to wadcutter loads simply because of the low velocities produced by 2 inch barrels not allowing HP bullets to expand reliably & consistently.

 

[Hawk]

I carry the 125 grain HPs as well.
Over penetration is my biggest concern, as I live in the City and don't want the bullets leaving my walls to harm my neighbors.
I have not done penetrain or expansion tests, but figure the 125s will open up more and/or fragment before the 158s will.

 

[Petrol & Powder]

For home defense I far prefer a shotgun. That gun doesn't need to be concealed. It doesn't need to be carried all day and it doesn't need a lot of capacity.
As for the effectiveness of ANY handgun against human attackers, a handgun is better than harsh language...........

If I knew I was headed into a deadly force encounter, I would:
A. NOT GO.
B. If I had to go, I would take a long gun and as many friends with long guns as possible.

The track record for the .357 magnum is actually one of the better handgun rounds. As I said earlier, prior to the gunfight we attempt to stack the odds as much in our favor as possible. That's just good planning and common sense. However, there's only so much one can do.

There is no 100% guarantee of success. You cannot plan and prepare for every possible contingency. There is no perfect cartridge or platform.
Anecdotal evidence about one particular failure or one particular success is just that - anecdotal evidence.
Examination of the results of a large number of events gives us a little better data to draw from. It's not a perfect predictor but it's the best we can do.

When using a handgun to stop a human attacker, there are only a few ways to assure rapid incapacitation. Some handgun and cartridge combinations are slightly better than other at achieving those average results over a large number of events. The key word there is average.
There are only three ways to rapidly incapacitate a human with a handgun:
1. Damage to the spinal cord or central nervous system that prevents the attacker from continuing the attack.
2. Damage to large bones needed for mobility. However, if the attacker maintains control of a firearm they can still harm you.
3. Disruption of the flow of oxygenated blood to the brain which will result in a loss of consciousness and therefore the loss of the ability to continue the attack.

In order to achieve those goals the bullet must: penetrate deep enough to reach the necessary critical anatomy
AND
Damage that critical anatomy enough to stop the fight.

Almost any bullet and gun can achieve those goals but some combinations are more likely than others to reliably achieve those goals.
However, there is no 100% proven load that will always achieve those goals.

We try to stack the odds as much as possible in our favor but in the end there will always be some failures.

 

[CZ93X62]

No argument against any info posted above.

My view, expressed here and elsewhere in the past--there are no "bad" 357 Magnum loads, just varying flavors of goodness. Bias alert--the 357 Magnum is by some distance my favorite handgun caliber in existence. Love the critter.

My old shop stayed with the W-W 158 grain JHP Super-X load from 1994 to about 2016, then opted for the FBI-touted Federal #357B load (125 grain JHP @ 1440 FPS). Most of the 357s getting hauled around by our deputies had 1-7/8" to 2-1/2" barrels, and Jello-testing showed the 158 grainers not getting enough velocity imparted to get reliable expansion, while the 125 JHPs had a better expansion probability. I don't have any snub 357s, and won't--unless S&W starts up with the Model 13/65 x 3" again. My 4" 686 runs the #357B at about 1425 FPS, the 6" pre-27 and 586 impart just under 1500, and the 7.5" BisHawk gives about 1525 FPS. I share P&P's fondness for the W-W 145 grain Silvertip in the K-frames, and that old W-W Super-X 158 JHP was no slouch either. I am a believer in Spending The Coin Of The Realm, so my 686 is stoked with the Fed #357B at present.

Given that Kalifornistan's latest public policy guidelines have directed the jails to release convicted felons in order to house beach-going furloughed taxpayers for defying the DUBIOUS edicts of unelected wonks, I have upgraded the in-house artillery a bit. Now supplementing the Glock 23 and the SIG P-228 we have the Remington 870 x 12 gauge, stoked with 8 x 3" turkey loads with 1-7/8 oz. of #2 birdshot. ARE YOU SATISFIED? 8s & Aces aren't my game.

 

[fiver]

good lord #2's?
you usin enough dynamite there Butch?

 

[Brad]

 

[Ian]

I can't recall ever hearing or reading of a person defending themselves from a life-threatening attack felt at the time that they were under-gunned.

Pump shottys here at every door and the BR, with 2-3/4" buckshot. We don't use handguns in the house for reasons mentioned. Also, weapon lights are easily mounted and manipulated. Quick-access hiding spots were planned in advance when I built the house.

 

[Hawk]

My wife thinks I'm paranoid for have a safe room and guns stashed at strategic locations.
My thoughts are, there's nothing wrong with being prepared!

 

[L Ross]

My wife thinks I'm paranoid for have a safe room and guns stashed at strategic locations.
My thoughts are, there's nothing wrong with being prepared!

How does she feel about seat belts, fire extinguishers, and home owner's insurance?

 

[Hawk]

She thinks these things are okay, because accidents happen.
It's just hard for her to believe goblins actually could exist or come to our neighborhood.
She wants to believe people are good and will eventually do the right thing.
She has a kind heart.

 

[Ian]

Ah yes, fire extinguishers. I have a 10-lb ABC by the bedroom door on the inside. The chances of any of us burning to death in our own beds is higher by hundreds of times than being assaulted in a home invasion. I thank Clint Smith for planting that often-missed seed in my head.

 

[RicinYakima]

You know Ian, I have taken a lot of dead bodies out of fires, especially when smoking in bed was more popular. And worked on a lot of shootings out in the public areas of the city. But I don't remember ever working on a patient shot in their own home by a stranger. It was always someone they knew. FWIW