Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
I don't think the 40 S&W is a lost cause or that it's on its way out. I do think its luster has faded and it probably needed to fade a little.
40 S&W
- Thread starter Petrol & Powder
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Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I have this fetish for multi calibers. And guns that can change caliber.
So 40 SW was a natural choice, as a second caliber for the 9mm G19. Just get the right extractor and a G19 will run both flawlessly from the same frame with a barrel and magazine change.
Then I got a 10 mm that can shoot 40sw also without issue. So lighter target loads for the 10 mm.
Without getting into my tin foil hat mentality... Let's just say.
Being able to load and shoot 40 or 10 with the same dies and gun. Like I can .38 and .357.
That just gives me more options. I like options.
So 40 SW was a natural choice, as a second caliber for the 9mm G19. Just get the right extractor and a G19 will run both flawlessly from the same frame with a barrel and magazine change.
Then I got a 10 mm that can shoot 40sw also without issue. So lighter target loads for the 10 mm.
Without getting into my tin foil hat mentality... Let's just say.
Being able to load and shoot 40 or 10 with the same dies and gun. Like I can .38 and .357.
That just gives me more options. I like options.
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Outpost75
Active Member
What the .40 has going for it is that there are some great bargains available in used police turn-in .40 caliber pistols and that ammo and brass are common and affordable. The cartridge is easily reloaded with common pistol or shotgun powders and performs acceptably with ordinary cast lead flatnosed bullets. Its ballistics approximate the .38-40 black powder load and it is an entirely adequate "packing pistol" for field use.
I load 5 grains of Bullseye in my Ruger Blackhawk with a wide flatnosed 180-grain .38-40 bullet from an Accurate mold for 1000 fps from a 4-5/8" barrel.
I load 5 grains of Bullseye in my Ruger Blackhawk with a wide flatnosed 180-grain .38-40 bullet from an Accurate mold for 1000 fps from a 4-5/8" barrel.
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That'll work.
JonB
Halcyon member
I don't have the same affliction ...anymore.
I've had a few CZ52 pistols (7.62x25) in the 1990s, 2000s, until 2015.
sometime in the 90s, Century offered a 9mm Luger barrel that fit in the CZ52. A few of my friends and myself ordered some. I bought both a standard and ported barrels. The factory Mags didn't like to cycle 9mm ammo reliably, like Century advertised they would. No one offered 9mm mags for the CZ52 back then. One of my Buddies figured out some mods, and made the factory mags work great.
.
But those 9mm barrels didn't see much range time, since Mil Surp 762x25 ammo from east block countries was much cheaper than 9mm ammo, and none of us were reloading at the time. Another problem was a large difference in point of aim for the fixed sights. Milsurp 762x25 was as close to "on" as it gets for a military pistol. BUT, for 9mm ammo at 50 feet, the POA was like 12" to left and 6" low.
Mitty, I'm right there with 'ya!
My 10mm is an EAA Witness made by Tanfoglio. One of the first things I did to modify it, when 10mm ammo was so hard to come by (20 or more years ago??), was to buy a .40 S&W barrel from the guy who ran Savvysurvivor.com. I could run either 10mm or 40 S&W with just a quick barrel change - less than a minute.
Not one to be satisfied with just one caliber change, I dove in for the whole enchilada. I eventually came up with barrel, slide and magazine combos to be able to change the one grip frame over from 10mm to 40 S&W, to .45 ACP, to 41AE, to .38 Super, to 9mm, to .22 LR.
And since the rifles didn't want to be left out of the fun, I have three different Savage actions that are swap barrel platforms. A lot of different calibers from the mundane 22-250 to the audacious 22 Eargasplitten Loudenboomer to the .458 Win Mag, and even a couple of RUMs can be swapped onto those actions.
I refuse to grow up and I never could make up my mind...
Slughammer
Member
Three pages and not even a picture! (My CZ 75B 40 top end on my SP01 frame with a single action trigger).
I'm home after a falling plate match and 96 mile drive. For carry its 9mm or 38spl. What the 40 does well for me is compete with cast bullets. For falling plates its the easy button. The Lee 180gr, 50/50 lube and 3.1gr of WST takes down steel plates. Lighter bullet and less torque than the 45acp. I've run 200gr 45acp down to 750fps for a 150pf, but didn't dare go lower. I'm able to run the 40 down at 130pf reliably and it still cycles the gun without being sluggish. I also believe its easier to find a truly accurate cast load in 40 (minor power factor) than the 9mm. I just enjoy reloading the 40 more than the tapered 9mm, I find straight walled brass more cooperative (just like 45acp). For weekly range trips I like full power 38spl, but for steel plate competition I like to fill the nitch with some nice soft 40.
I'm home after a falling plate match and 96 mile drive. For carry its 9mm or 38spl. What the 40 does well for me is compete with cast bullets. For falling plates its the easy button. The Lee 180gr, 50/50 lube and 3.1gr of WST takes down steel plates. Lighter bullet and less torque than the 45acp. I've run 200gr 45acp down to 750fps for a 150pf, but didn't dare go lower. I'm able to run the 40 down at 130pf reliably and it still cycles the gun without being sluggish. I also believe its easier to find a truly accurate cast load in 40 (minor power factor) than the 9mm. I just enjoy reloading the 40 more than the tapered 9mm, I find straight walled brass more cooperative (just like 45acp). For weekly range trips I like full power 38spl, but for steel plate competition I like to fill the nitch with some nice soft 40.
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Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Not into interchangeable/conversion firearms. Firm believer in Jack of all Trades, master of none! After all is said and done, you still have one firearm. Rather spend the $$$ towards a whole new firearm. I don't even shoot 38 Specials in my 357's or 44 Specials in my 44 Magnums. Conversion cylinders for my ROA........ 
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Outpost makes a good point, the proliferation of surplus pistols chambered in 40 S&W does create some good bargains. And the brass is plentiful. I had so much once fired 40 S&W cases that I ended up selling off most of it for next to nothing.
The 40 S&W may be the current police trade in pistol bargain of today, like the DA 38 Special revolvers were in the 80’s and 90’s.
I have all the gear needed to load 40 S&W, but I can’t remember the last time I loaded that cartridge. The 40 S&W case utilizes a small pistol primer, which currently appears to be a plus. It’s relatively easy to make major with the 40 S&W (although there are other paths to achieve that goal with some benefits) and if you load 10mm Auto, you can probably share some bullets between the two cartridges.
As a straight walled, rimless casing, it poses no problems for the reloader.
From an economics viewpoint, the 40 S&W has some real value.
The 40 S&W may be the current police trade in pistol bargain of today, like the DA 38 Special revolvers were in the 80’s and 90’s.
I have all the gear needed to load 40 S&W, but I can’t remember the last time I loaded that cartridge. The 40 S&W case utilizes a small pistol primer, which currently appears to be a plus. It’s relatively easy to make major with the 40 S&W (although there are other paths to achieve that goal with some benefits) and if you load 10mm Auto, you can probably share some bullets between the two cartridges.
As a straight walled, rimless casing, it poses no problems for the reloader.
From an economics viewpoint, the 40 S&W has some real value.
Petrol & Powder
Well-Known Member
Actually, Outpost75 made the point, I just agreed – but yes.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Two buddies in Ohio picked these up from a local guy. One had much wear obvious from in holster. Other was $more but as new. Both guns gen 1 S&W and both great shooters. Sub 300 and 370 for nicer gun.
I picked up a trade in Glock22. Gen1 gun rough outside. But price good. I wanted a second gun as back up for my competition to my G35. Bbl was FULL of carbon!!! Took removing making a "bath" and soaking to get clean. Went from a 4.5-5" to 1" shooter overnite!
I think you gonna enjoy this choice.
CW
Rick H
Well-Known Member
I like the 40 S&W enough that it is my carry gun. I don't understand all the talk about recoil issues. I carried a department issued S&W Model 66 4" 357 Mag for years. Usually we qualified quarterly using 38 special wadcutters but once a year I would use full house .357 Mag ammo. Our course of fire was 90 rounds. My strong hand would be numb after qualification with the magnum ammo. My department issued WW 180gr. HP's as duty ammo for the S&W 40 and we used less expensive 180gr FMJ for training. Neither my Glock 23 duty weapon nor my current S&W Shield 40 ever caused me similar issues. My department had a number of female officers of small stature and all of them were able to handle and qualify with the S&W 40's.
My agency was part of a 9 community mutual aid pact and all of them transitioned to 40 S&W. Shortly after the FBI gave them "cover" one of the cities went to 9mm. I knew the then chief and asked him why. Money! Glock made him an offer to buy the old and supply new 9mm's and the savings in ammo cost made it compelling for him. Those who had trouble controlling and qualifying with 40 S&Ws shot no better with 9mm's. This was regardless of stature. It seems there are just those individuals who are naturally poor shots and unwilling to spend the time and efforts to become better shots.
I'm old enough to remember when the FBI hired a bunch of whitecoat lab researchers to do a study that recommended 90gr. and 110gr bullets in 38 Specials and 357 Magnums respectively, as the best ammunition based on the "computer models". The only problem was they didn't work well in real life. I do know that the Mozambique Drill was developed by fellows using 9mm's and it had nothing to do with body armor and everything to do with the failure of the 9 as a stopper. (Yes, I know it was Nato fmj, non expanding) I view FBI recommendations with a grain of salt. They have a less than stellar track record.
I am aware of the details of 11 (12?) shootings involving the 40S&W in our mutual aid group. In all but one they put the "recipient" down immediately. The one failure? An officer was shot while attempting to draw his weapon: through the hand, striking the slide of his glock and putting it out of commission, then deflected into his hip dumping him to the ground. The shooter then walked up and assassinated him with a bullet to the head. The officer's partner gave chase to the fleeing shooter and engaged in a running gun battle striking the shooter once in the buttock and once in the kidney before incapacitating him. The shooter survived. The surviving officer felt the 40S&W failed him. Mostly he was upset the shooter survived. Oh yeah, the shooter used a 40 S&W that was stolen from a gym locker in another jurisdiction.
I carry the S&W Shield40 with 180gr. HP's (either WW or Speer Gold Dots). It is handy, easily concealed, accurate, and has been utterly reliable. I don't feel constrained by the 8 rd. capacity (15 if carrying a spare mag). It is a tool that I trust.
My agency was part of a 9 community mutual aid pact and all of them transitioned to 40 S&W. Shortly after the FBI gave them "cover" one of the cities went to 9mm. I knew the then chief and asked him why. Money! Glock made him an offer to buy the old and supply new 9mm's and the savings in ammo cost made it compelling for him. Those who had trouble controlling and qualifying with 40 S&Ws shot no better with 9mm's. This was regardless of stature. It seems there are just those individuals who are naturally poor shots and unwilling to spend the time and efforts to become better shots.
I'm old enough to remember when the FBI hired a bunch of whitecoat lab researchers to do a study that recommended 90gr. and 110gr bullets in 38 Specials and 357 Magnums respectively, as the best ammunition based on the "computer models". The only problem was they didn't work well in real life. I do know that the Mozambique Drill was developed by fellows using 9mm's and it had nothing to do with body armor and everything to do with the failure of the 9 as a stopper. (Yes, I know it was Nato fmj, non expanding) I view FBI recommendations with a grain of salt. They have a less than stellar track record.
I am aware of the details of 11 (12?) shootings involving the 40S&W in our mutual aid group. In all but one they put the "recipient" down immediately. The one failure? An officer was shot while attempting to draw his weapon: through the hand, striking the slide of his glock and putting it out of commission, then deflected into his hip dumping him to the ground. The shooter then walked up and assassinated him with a bullet to the head. The officer's partner gave chase to the fleeing shooter and engaged in a running gun battle striking the shooter once in the buttock and once in the kidney before incapacitating him. The shooter survived. The surviving officer felt the 40S&W failed him. Mostly he was upset the shooter survived. Oh yeah, the shooter used a 40 S&W that was stolen from a gym locker in another jurisdiction.
I carry the S&W Shield40 with 180gr. HP's (either WW or Speer Gold Dots). It is handy, easily concealed, accurate, and has been utterly reliable. I don't feel constrained by the 8 rd. capacity (15 if carrying a spare mag). It is a tool that I trust.
Friend and I were shooting at trap released hogs, I used 165gr cast in 40, he used 115 factory 9mm. His took several shots, mine just one. Texas heart shot at 20 yds, broke front leg and ruined lower jaw. I'll continue with the 40sw XD. I've read some stuff that says 165gr is the best for 40sw, good weight and higher fps. I agree. I don't load particularly hot either.
Except, maybe concealed carry?
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
The 2nd pistol I ever bought was a used SS police S&W 4064
Since it is DA only I have always had a hard time shooting it accurately!
I once was at the range and a fellow shooter who was well versed in DA autos ( Shot a 357Sig )
shot it and claimed it was the sweetest DA he ever shot! I still never achieved his results with it, however!
Since it is DA only I have always had a hard time shooting it accurately!
I once was at the range and a fellow shooter who was well versed in DA autos ( Shot a 357Sig )
shot it and claimed it was the sweetest DA he ever shot! I still never achieved his results with it, however!
CZ93X62
Official forum enigma
You are a lot closer to the FBI Labs than I am. By the time we got the Facklerite's love child presented to us it was labeled as the best thing since sliced bread for the 9mm. This was about 18-24 months after Miami, if memory serves. The 40 S&W was rolled out some months later......1989 or thereabouts.
What I remember most is the bad-mouthing given to our then-current 9mm carry loads, the Win Silvertip 115 grainers. These clocked 1200+ FPS from my S&W 459, which was 25% faster than the 38 Special 110 +Ps we had issued since I started. I thought then (and still do) that FBI was lying up their coat sleeves about this 'Wonder Bullet'. Since we had the 45 ACP authorized, it wasn't a big thing at the time. My shop stayed with the 9mm STHP until early 1994 when the 'Sub-sonic' was mandated. The 40 S&W came on board at the same time, so the 9mm went in the safe. I stuck with the 45ACP at work (S&W 4516) in plainclothes and carried a Beretta 96 in 40 S&W in uniform until retirement.
My recollector is not what it once was, and I reserve the right to be wrong (as always)--but this is what I recall happening.
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