can't have nuthin nice.
- Thread starter fiver
- Start date
Army Air Corp was WW1, Army Air Force was WW2. I believe that the Air Force became a separate service branch in 1948 during the Truman Administration defense reorganization when the War Dept. became the Defense Dept. and the Pentagon was created. Just my opinion but I think we should go back to the War Dept. and act like we meant it. My dad served in the AAF 45-48, mostly in the occupation forces in Hiroshima. We used to tease about how he glowed in the dark.
fiver
Well-Known Member
I keep it by ww-1 being aac and ww-2 being aaf
and it changing to just the AF for Korea, it's off a bit on the dates but close enough.
I didn't know they had dropped the strategic air command in favor of something else until I was showing my blue and red berets to a kid that had just come home from his basic before heading out to his tech school.
he seen the SAC badges and asked about them.
I guess they do stuff a lot different then they used to.
they even started calling what I used to do by different names [making them sound 'cooler'? somehow [shrug]
and it changing to just the AF for Korea, it's off a bit on the dates but close enough.
I didn't know they had dropped the strategic air command in favor of something else until I was showing my blue and red berets to a kid that had just come home from his basic before heading out to his tech school.
he seen the SAC badges and asked about them.
I guess they do stuff a lot different then they used to.
they even started calling what I used to do by different names [making them sound 'cooler'? somehow [shrug]
462
California's Central Coast Amid The Insanity
"I guess they do stuff a lot different then they used to.
they even started calling what I used to do by different names [making them sound 'cooler'? somehow [shrug]"
Yep. My Air Force job title was weapons mechanic, now it's called weapons technician.
they even started calling what I used to do by different names [making them sound 'cooler'? somehow [shrug]"
Yep. My Air Force job title was weapons mechanic, now it's called weapons technician.
RBHarter
West Central AR
X1 was an A1C in Com . We spent a little over 2yr at Edwards . I sat up on the OHV hill one afternoon and watched , I think it was Atlantis , get piggybacked on the 747 to go back to Florida . I also got to watch the takeoff of Voyager for the non-stop unrefueled round the world flight .
The best day though was the day we picked up a full bird out of gas on his way to "damnit I still can't say" . As a lead foot wing nut driving through the lean to's full of SR71s in various states of assembly and inspection was at least as good as crawling through the Landcaster in Nanton Alberta Canada .
The best day though was the day we picked up a full bird out of gas on his way to "damnit I still can't say" . As a lead foot wing nut driving through the lean to's full of SR71s in various states of assembly and inspection was at least as good as crawling through the Landcaster in Nanton Alberta Canada .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
RBHarter,
Being around operational SR-71s, that does sound very cool. I saw one fly at Oshkosh one year, and in museums. Voyager was amazing.
Edwards has always been an amazing place for strange and wonderful flying machines. Must have been a fun job.
Many on the Voyager team were friends or acquaintances. I was in their hangar once, when they were building it, knew Dick Rutan slightly.
A friend was one of the comm officers for the flight. His son, also a friend, was Pres of Scaled Composites after Burt Rutan retired. I knew Burt
reasonably well, and other folks there. Edwards was just out of where we could go, but flew around that area a few time. My Dad tells me I was
conceived at Mojave when he was doing chase flying for the USN in the late 40s-early 50s. I have a lot of connections to Mojave and Edwards
era, back in the day and more recently. Was standing about 4 ft from Richard Branson in the VIP area when SpaceShip One left and returned,
and got to look it over very close after the flight. Lots of famous folks showed up. Elon Musk, Dennis Tito, and more. That is a very cool
place to visit and hang around.
All those connections from building a Long EZ back in the day - way before Rutan and crew were famous folks. Just other crazy pilots
making home-made airplanes.
Bill
Being around operational SR-71s, that does sound very cool. I saw one fly at Oshkosh one year, and in museums. Voyager was amazing.
Edwards has always been an amazing place for strange and wonderful flying machines. Must have been a fun job.
Many on the Voyager team were friends or acquaintances. I was in their hangar once, when they were building it, knew Dick Rutan slightly.
A friend was one of the comm officers for the flight. His son, also a friend, was Pres of Scaled Composites after Burt Rutan retired. I knew Burt
reasonably well, and other folks there. Edwards was just out of where we could go, but flew around that area a few time. My Dad tells me I was
conceived at Mojave when he was doing chase flying for the USN in the late 40s-early 50s. I have a lot of connections to Mojave and Edwards
era, back in the day and more recently. Was standing about 4 ft from Richard Branson in the VIP area when SpaceShip One left and returned,
and got to look it over very close after the flight. Lots of famous folks showed up. Elon Musk, Dennis Tito, and more. That is a very cool
place to visit and hang around.
All those connections from building a Long EZ back in the day - way before Rutan and crew were famous folks. Just other crazy pilots
making home-made airplanes.
Bill
RBHarter
West Central AR
My ties are a little different . Most everyone I knew there is long gone I'm sure . I have some family still up at China Lake . I was in the Owens until I was 10 or so .
Later in life I had the opportunity to spend some time with Al Goss , Al Worth and Lyle Shelton .
The Pond Racer was an impressive bird also , one of Rutans designs .
So many great memories and people .
Later in life I had the opportunity to spend some time with Al Goss , Al Worth and Lyle Shelton .
The Pond Racer was an impressive bird also , one of Rutans designs .
So many great memories and people .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I saw the Pond Racer while it was being built. With the skins off of the pods, it was absolutely
amazing how DENSE they were with engine, cooling ducts, radiators, exhaust pipes, turbos, intercoolers, air ducts and more. VERY impressive
bird. Sad when it crashed.
Lyle was always someone who impressed me. I saw the Rare Bear race at Miami in about '71, and watched it on TV at Reno many
times. That bird always impressed me. He did a heck of a job with it.
Bill
amazing how DENSE they were with engine, cooling ducts, radiators, exhaust pipes, turbos, intercoolers, air ducts and more. VERY impressive
bird. Sad when it crashed.
Lyle was always someone who impressed me. I saw the Rare Bear race at Miami in about '71, and watched it on TV at Reno many
times. That bird always impressed me. He did a heck of a job with it.
Bill
RBHarter
West Central AR
I was there . Weird events .
We were living in Inyokern in 74' . They left Mojave with Rare Bear , still had the Hamm's bear doing the bar top lean on the 77 on the tail then , the engine let go on the way back to Bakersfield and he sat on the ramp at inyokern until the Ag season was over so they could pull the engine off the Ag plane to fly him home . Rare Bear wasn't a sad looking airplane by October . I'm not sure there was a drop of liquid outside of the brakes left in him . The flaps and gear doors were all hanging , there was chunk of cowling gone or a hole in it , the canopy was all sand hazed too .
In 91' they had good sponcers and set a race record just over 456 mph in the Gold Race . In 92' they set and broke 4 more . The Bear qualified at 458 won 2 heat races at 467 and 472 then the Gold Race at at 496 .
For those not in the know the closed course top speed record piston engine record is only 512 for an official lap record . That is held by a P-51 that was modified to a point that a little bit like calling a fuelly funny car a Mustang . (See how I worked in the OP?) . At those speeds it takes it takes between 50-75 HP per mph in combination with weight and frontal area reductions . A quick look at an F8F Grumman Bearcat next to a North American P51D will explain the handicap . The typical race ready Rolls Merlin for Reno is 1710 cid liquid cooled and has about 3600 HP available if the prop and gear case can hold it they can squeeze something north of 3800. To do it the take the engine designed in 1938 built on a war surplus block for 75 inches of mercury with emergency power for 3 min at 125 inches and let it run 175 inches . Normal day is 29.92 inches at sea level or 14.7 psi . So they're only exceeding design by about 27 psi of boost on an engine pulling maximum design power 60 psi . A street car is a bomb at 24 psi and these guys are pushing 90# .
The Bearcat has a 2 speed blower on a 2800 cid air cooled radial ........ I was sure Rare Bear was sporting a 3350 , 28 vs 14 cylinders .... If it is the 2800 still the factory rating was only 2250 HP . Of course as racers the 2 speed blower was used in high gear way below 20,000 ft so that gave them closer to a horse an inch . Pit insiders over heard that the Bear was running 2800 hp for take off 3600 in the chute and a fogger plate that would give them a best guess of 4300 HP for 7 seconds and only needed 10psi on 1/4 open fuel jets to keep it from melting the heads . (Yes it was reported that they had a 700 HP nitro shot , I saw bottles in the pit that we're not oxygen or nitrogen) The 1974 Mack like exhaust black smoke down the back stretch and being able to see the acceleration was enough for me . Just thinking about that sound coming out of the last turn and down the home stretch still gives me the power junky chills .
We were living in Inyokern in 74' . They left Mojave with Rare Bear , still had the Hamm's bear doing the bar top lean on the 77 on the tail then , the engine let go on the way back to Bakersfield and he sat on the ramp at inyokern until the Ag season was over so they could pull the engine off the Ag plane to fly him home . Rare Bear wasn't a sad looking airplane by October . I'm not sure there was a drop of liquid outside of the brakes left in him . The flaps and gear doors were all hanging , there was chunk of cowling gone or a hole in it , the canopy was all sand hazed too .
In 91' they had good sponcers and set a race record just over 456 mph in the Gold Race . In 92' they set and broke 4 more . The Bear qualified at 458 won 2 heat races at 467 and 472 then the Gold Race at at 496 .
For those not in the know the closed course top speed record piston engine record is only 512 for an official lap record . That is held by a P-51 that was modified to a point that a little bit like calling a fuelly funny car a Mustang . (See how I worked in the OP?) . At those speeds it takes it takes between 50-75 HP per mph in combination with weight and frontal area reductions . A quick look at an F8F Grumman Bearcat next to a North American P51D will explain the handicap . The typical race ready Rolls Merlin for Reno is 1710 cid liquid cooled and has about 3600 HP available if the prop and gear case can hold it they can squeeze something north of 3800. To do it the take the engine designed in 1938 built on a war surplus block for 75 inches of mercury with emergency power for 3 min at 125 inches and let it run 175 inches . Normal day is 29.92 inches at sea level or 14.7 psi . So they're only exceeding design by about 27 psi of boost on an engine pulling maximum design power 60 psi . A street car is a bomb at 24 psi and these guys are pushing 90# .
The Bearcat has a 2 speed blower on a 2800 cid air cooled radial ........ I was sure Rare Bear was sporting a 3350 , 28 vs 14 cylinders .... If it is the 2800 still the factory rating was only 2250 HP . Of course as racers the 2 speed blower was used in high gear way below 20,000 ft so that gave them closer to a horse an inch . Pit insiders over heard that the Bear was running 2800 hp for take off 3600 in the chute and a fogger plate that would give them a best guess of 4300 HP for 7 seconds and only needed 10psi on 1/4 open fuel jets to keep it from melting the heads . (Yes it was reported that they had a 700 HP nitro shot , I saw bottles in the pit that we're not oxygen or nitrogen) The 1974 Mack like exhaust black smoke down the back stretch and being able to see the acceleration was enough for me . Just thinking about that sound coming out of the last turn and down the home stretch still gives me the power junky chills .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Seems like the same sort of gearheads that like hot cars, are usually into guns and aircraft, too. Just cool, capable, high pressure machinery is somehow in our blood.
Yes, Rare Bear was running a Wright 3350. I have no doubt that they had over 1 hp per cu inch. They are spraying water alcohol into the intakes
of those birds (in general) to cool the intake charge and provide a bit of extra power, too. The Mustangs leave a trail of water as they also spray
water over the outside of the intercoolers to increase heat transfer, further densify the charge air. That they can make the Navy airfoil, intended for
gentle landing behavior at 65 kts coming aboard the carrier at those speeds is impressive. The Mustang has an advanced laminar flow airfoil, far lower
drag at high speed. The 3350 Wright is only an 18 cylinder engine, two rows of 9 cylinders. A friend has a new steel crankcase as a souvenir. I keep
trying to buy it from him to put a glass slab on top of for a coffee table. I think you are right about the nitrous systems.
I worked the pits, towing aircraft for the Kansas City air races back in '93. Shelton had no sponsor, I think, and wasn't there. Dreadnought won - Sea Fury
with a P&W 4360 corncob. Four rows of 7 cylinders each. SuperCorsair and Dreadnought are the only ones that have run that engine, the biggest US
radial ever made. Just being close to those aircraft, connecting towbars, etc was very cool.
Too bad nobody ever raced the Hawker Tempest. The engine was the Napier Sabre, two flat 12s stacked and cranks geared together - and sleeve valves.
Always wanted to hear one run in anger on the racetrack, but I don't think any are flying anymore. The Sea fury, back when the original Centaurus engines
were still viable were amazing to hear. Super quiet while going like heck. Apparently the poppet valves are causing a good bit of the noise, other than
the exhaust note. Centaurus is an 18 cyl (two rows of 9) like the Wright 3350, but "only" 3272 cu inch, with sleeve valves. Quiet, and very powerful. They
had the five bladed prop, and of course, being British, turned the wrong way.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/NapierSabreIII.JPG
Bill
Yes, Rare Bear was running a Wright 3350. I have no doubt that they had over 1 hp per cu inch. They are spraying water alcohol into the intakes
of those birds (in general) to cool the intake charge and provide a bit of extra power, too. The Mustangs leave a trail of water as they also spray
water over the outside of the intercoolers to increase heat transfer, further densify the charge air. That they can make the Navy airfoil, intended for
gentle landing behavior at 65 kts coming aboard the carrier at those speeds is impressive. The Mustang has an advanced laminar flow airfoil, far lower
drag at high speed. The 3350 Wright is only an 18 cylinder engine, two rows of 9 cylinders. A friend has a new steel crankcase as a souvenir. I keep
trying to buy it from him to put a glass slab on top of for a coffee table. I think you are right about the nitrous systems.
I worked the pits, towing aircraft for the Kansas City air races back in '93. Shelton had no sponsor, I think, and wasn't there. Dreadnought won - Sea Fury
with a P&W 4360 corncob. Four rows of 7 cylinders each. SuperCorsair and Dreadnought are the only ones that have run that engine, the biggest US
radial ever made. Just being close to those aircraft, connecting towbars, etc was very cool.
Too bad nobody ever raced the Hawker Tempest. The engine was the Napier Sabre, two flat 12s stacked and cranks geared together - and sleeve valves.
Always wanted to hear one run in anger on the racetrack, but I don't think any are flying anymore. The Sea fury, back when the original Centaurus engines
were still viable were amazing to hear. Super quiet while going like heck. Apparently the poppet valves are causing a good bit of the noise, other than
the exhaust note. Centaurus is an 18 cyl (two rows of 9) like the Wright 3350, but "only" 3272 cu inch, with sleeve valves. Quiet, and very powerful. They
had the five bladed prop, and of course, being British, turned the wrong way.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/NapierSabreIII.JPG
Bill
My dad,who was not only my building mentor,but a great friend and biz partner....
Was at the Battle of the Bulge.He was an "older guy" compared to his fellow soldiers.Knowing,and working with him,can see he was a guiding light to those around him during that epic period.
He didn't talk about the battle much,preferring to talk about the German prisoners and their sophisticated talents that he learned of whilst spending time with them.Also,said it was the coldest winter he ever experienced....this,coming from a Va. mnt guy.
Was at the Battle of the Bulge.He was an "older guy" compared to his fellow soldiers.Knowing,and working with him,can see he was a guiding light to those around him during that epic period.
He didn't talk about the battle much,preferring to talk about the German prisoners and their sophisticated talents that he learned of whilst spending time with them.Also,said it was the coldest winter he ever experienced....this,coming from a Va. mnt guy.
RBHarter
West Central AR
Furious and Baby Gorilla still ran backwards with 5 blades ...... That's depressing I haven't been to Reno in 20 yr.
I think that 66 is still with the Cenature engine here .
There's a little bitty Yak here too , they ran a Wright in it .
This video is on the back stretch , you can really see the black horse power coming out of the turn with Rare Bear .
The Super Corsair was a huge let down for me . It stared life as an F2G but they cut a lot of airplane away to get to the racer . It didn't have enough wing left to hold the torque roll so when they ran full power it would roll right and they didn't have enough muscle to get it into the turns . Or they were afraid of it ........ The F2G was rated at 470 knots at 20,000 ft . Stripped down they should have been able to turn 400 on the slicked up airframe . Gaps closed , hinges milled , flush screws and flat top canopy . I think the best lap was only 410-412 ......
I worked the T-6s , Lickity Split , Sheba ,Slo Yeller , Miss Iris and Undecided . Talk about it ain't cheating if there isn't a specific rule about it ...... Here lemme see how far this one will bend , look they let everybody do it let's do it more .
I think that 66 is still with the Cenature engine here .
There's a little bitty Yak here too , they ran a Wright in it .
This video is on the back stretch , you can really see the black horse power coming out of the turn with Rare Bear .
The Super Corsair was a huge let down for me . It stared life as an F2G but they cut a lot of airplane away to get to the racer . It didn't have enough wing left to hold the torque roll so when they ran full power it would roll right and they didn't have enough muscle to get it into the turns . Or they were afraid of it ........ The F2G was rated at 470 knots at 20,000 ft . Stripped down they should have been able to turn 400 on the slicked up airframe . Gaps closed , hinges milled , flush screws and flat top canopy . I think the best lap was only 410-412 ......
I worked the T-6s , Lickity Split , Sheba ,Slo Yeller , Miss Iris and Undecided . Talk about it ain't cheating if there isn't a specific rule about it ...... Here lemme see how far this one will bend , look they let everybody do it let's do it more .
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
KC air races were in '93, similar lineup, but Rare Bear was down, no sponsorship, didn't show. Dreadnought won,
Strega challenging, IIRC. The Yak blew a piston, had the half melted one on display at their pits. Wow!
Impressive birds. I saw Gunfighter in there, too. I sat in the cockpit of that one.
Bill
Strega challenging, IIRC. The Yak blew a piston, had the half melted one on display at their pits. Wow!
Impressive birds. I saw Gunfighter in there, too. I sat in the cockpit of that one.
Bill