catching the ideal 30-30 in other cartridges

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Monochrome

Active Member
Well trying to get that 30-30 into a different cartridge. The only gunsmith who i found that was willing to make me a new bolt action 30-30 wanted 10,000$ USD to do it. And no promise of it being a repeating rifle.

Ive spent much time on this and its not funny to me. WHere i live in michigan, the NORMAL buck i have dragged in the last 24 years has been 220# live weight. I am a "big stud muffin" and have been 6'2" and 240-260 since 9th grade. I have pulled deer through the woods that made me crap myself with every tug.

I have started trying to reload 150 grain interlocks to a muzzle velocity just above their required expansion velocity so that I can prevent exploding bullets at my normal range of 50-70 yards. in both 308 and 8x57. I am avoiding the low weight bullets for a reason. Bullet integrity, to many are meant for tiny things like wood chuck, and the bone of a deer just wont work with them. Have chased a goodly number of deer hit with 100 psp varmint bullets in 243 that made blood pudding in the chest cavity from the lungs, but never got exit holes, only found the copper jacket stuck in the off side ribs.

Considered 30 apache, 300 hamr, 7tcu for easy creation from .223 brass. But the near mandatory use of light bullets and high velocity isnt leaving me with fuzzy feelings.

.350 legend isnt giving me any good feelings at all.

One thing id like is if i end with a new cartridge, the option to use cast bullets at all velocities. High and low, sure i know people have loaded lead roudnball in 30-06 to 680 fps, even 120 grain swc to the same and been barely able to keep groups at 20 yards blasting raccoons out of the garden. Something tempted to go 30-06 and say screw it and learn to download guard ammo for it. But have a feeling an insurance adjuster wont laugh if i put that 120 grain spire point through the garage wall and freezer because the garbage can needed saving.

I have considered a JES rebore on my 54r, but im more on the lines of lesser recoil and a 35 caliber slug wont really achieve that for me. But there are some oddball 54r wildcats that cut the case in half and give it 40 caliber bullets and mimic the 11mm mauser ammo
 
Rick H

Rick H

Well-Known Member
Why not look for a Savage 340 or Remington 788 in 30/30? There are decent good shooting bolt action 30/30's out there that function well and cost a whole lot less than $10K.

I guess I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish. I too have hunted Michigan whitetails for some 55 years. None of the deer I ran into were bulletproof. All were taken with decent hits with 6mmRem, 7x30 Waters, .308Win, 7mm RemMag, 44mag carbine, and 45/70. I even used 20ga. slugs and 50 and 54 caliber muzzleloaders. All work just fine if you hit them in the boiler room. I have helped track a lot of deer that were hit poorly too. I doesn't much matter what you use if you hit them bad.

I have taken deer from southern farm country, Northern lower peninsula, and the UP. While it sure feels like a field dressed whitetail buck weighs at least 300lbs. when dragging them, they miraculously lose an awful lot of weight by the time I get them on a scale. Most bucks go 150-170lbs live weight. Precious few go much over 200lbs.

If I was in the market for a new Michigan deer rifle I would buy/build a 7-08Rem. I would load it with 139gr. Hornady interlocks and wouldn't hesitate using it on 300# live weight whitetails. Then again, if the right deal on the right rifle showed up in .308W I wouldn't turn it down. They all work.
 
3

300BLK

Well-Known Member
Ruger 77/357? With heavy bullets, the 357Mag from a carbine will blast a hole through any WT in Michigan with modest recoil.

If you were to revisit the 6mms, you would find that Nosler Partition bullets transform those small bores.
 
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T

Thumbcocker

Active Member
.308 loaded with a cast flat point? Mrs.Thumbcocker shot a hog with a Tikka. 308 loaded with a Ranch Dog design but with conventional lube grooves moving around 2100 fps. Bang flop.
 
RBHarter

RBHarter

West Central AR
I'm confident in selecting the 06' as the ideal one rifle . 150-168 gr loads 4" over at 100 yd is hold on the 6" vitals plate from 50-300 yr and there's meat in the freezer. If it's user is competent it's only light for griz,polar, and Kodiak bears as a primary.

The 7×57 probably has video conformation from ground squirrels to elephant. Again not so much for the great bears .

If you want a 30-30 and the lever gun is out there are lots of 788s and 325/340 Savages out there .

I wouldn't have thought it really but the 358 Win is pretty docile also. Like the 06' you have 800 bullets to choose from and it's getting into big bear turf even for my conservative ideals .

Ideal one rifle ? A guy would be hard pressed to find enough cons with a 7×57,7-08, 280 Rem or 06' to not one of them .

Nothing against the 30-30 but I've hunted 1000' above the last tree on white granite flag stone 300 yd take it or leave it , on a cow trail through sage 8' high , and in quaking Aspen where 25 yd would be a miracle........on the day .
I also lived most of my hunting life with a 1000 ftlb at 100 yd legal requirement .
 
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Ian

Ian

Notorious member
A bolt action .30-'06, a bolt action .22 rimfire, and a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun are all a person ever needs.

Trash pandas are easily live-trapped and shot in confinement after being moved to a suitable location.
 
M

Monochrome

Active Member
Its not unexpected the confusion, I like my .308 but it sucks. Been using federal trophy copper 150 and 160 grain ammunition. Without the dynacomp on it, when using my rest it can push me back 6" every shot. With the dyna comp it stays in place.

I like the 30-30 every deer ive gotten with it, and been in the presence of when shot, they dont go far. Seriously they dont seem to wander more then 10 steps, when they DO move. With a 308 hit that takes the out completely, they can ran 5-600 yards and never stop until they run into something they cant get around, over, or through and get hung up.

Ive had .243 deer with 100 psp corelokt, that ran 2-300 yards no problem, and when opened up, the entire chest cavity had a heart and pudding. Yes, that bullet comes in 3 styles and im pretty sure the ammunition was loaded with the 100 yard minimum distance to target version based on cannelure in recovered jackets.

Thats another thing i want to get out of, the velocity dependent jacketed bullet. Yes, you "expect" the gun to be used as a 300 yard gun, so you dont ever imagine the animal will be within 100 yards of the muzzle when shot at, so the thought of bullet impact at a genuine 2800 fps is never engineered into the bullet by the ammo company. SO when it hits 4-600 fps OVER the threshold, it grenades.
 
todd

todd

Well-Known Member
in my younger days, i've killed a lot of deer with the 30-30 (Win m94) and factory loads and later, reloads. if you are hung up on the 30-30, i would try to find H&R single shot 30-30 or if you are really lucky either a TC Contender or Encore in MGM or Bullberry barrels in 30-30.

i'm in swPA and most of the deer i shot were 60ish yards and less. the deer i shoot today are ancestors of the Michigan deer. PA deer were about hunted to extinction, until the PA government/game commission? reached a deal with Michigan for deer.

i use a 1898 Springfield Armory in 30-40 Krag with 173gr Ranch Dog and H4198 to goes 1926fps. i and my oldest son have killed deer at 173 yards (my son shot it). i have a Arisaka Type 99 in '06, but i haven't shot it. i have killed deer with the 22-250AI thru the 45-70.

number 1 has to be my 30-30, while the number 2 is a custom '98 FN Mauser in 7x57. number 3 is the 35/30-30 (1972 Win m94 that JES did)), number 4 is the 9.3x57 in a Husqvarna m46 and number 5 is TC Encore with a 23" barrel in 444 Marlin.

jacketed bullets are fine, i use the 30 Herrett (TC Contender with 10" barrel) with 130gr Speer HP that i have shoot a deer with. but cast boolits, esp FN cast boolits, are great for taking deer.
 
Spindrift

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Ian said:
A bolt action .30-'06, a bolt action .22 rimfire, and a pump-action 12-gauge shotgun are all a person ever need
Click to expand...
^^ This statement is of course the absolute truth. But can we all agree to keep this information confined within our brotherhood here on this forum? And not tell spouses?

Last summer, I had great fun loading 30/30- level reduced loads in .308win, and .30-06, using the Speer 150grs FN bullet. I got excellent accuracy with both (5 shots, 1MOA @100m).
If you want to reproduce the terminal ballistics of the 30/30, you can just replicate the performance level using bullets designed for the 30/30- the deer will never know which cartridge platform helped launch the bullet.

I used Vihtavuori N110 (never chronoed the loads) but you can probably get good results using something like imr 4198, or similar.
 
Spindrift

Spindrift

Well-Known Member
Towards the end of my Lyman reloading manual, there are Contender loads, a useful source of otherwise scarce (official) data on reduced loads with jacketed bullets. The chart below are .30-06 loads. Pretty much in the 30/30 ballpark, performancewise -albeit with shorter barrel

DSC_0072.JPG
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
Any reason it HAS to be a bolt-action?

30/30 ballistics can be exploited quite well with a lever-action, but there are so many inexpensive bolt-actions

The Savage 340 or Remington 788 both have great reputations, but are getting hard to find. One of the new, cheap, plastic-stocked CNC wonders chambered in 308 and loaded down would be a cheap and easy way there. Same can be said for the '06 or 300 Savage, but 308 brass is so much cheaper and easier to fond these days.

I love the 30/30 and it FITs my chosen main platform - Contender Carbine. If I really wanted a bolt-action, I'd personally look for a case more amenable to the action design and 308 is about as cheap and easy to find as one could hope for these days. Not my favorite cartridge, but I cannot argue that it is a pretty versatile case. Honestly, hanging onto the 30/30 like I do is a bit of an indulgence, not necessarily THE most practical choice, but it fits the Contender, which I chose for several reasons, not just the 30/30.
 
Ian

Ian

Notorious member
Spindrift said:
Towards the end of my Lyman reloading manual, there are Contender loads, a useful source of otherwise scarce (official) data on reduced loads with jacketed bullets. The chart below are .30-06 loads. Pretty much in the 30/30 ballpark, performancewise -albeit with shorter barrel

View attachment 40453
Click to expand...

After reading Monochrome's last comment, I was about to write out exactly what you did. The Speer or Sierra 150-grain hollow or soft flat point bullets shoot very well from a bolt action .308 or '06 and are very easy to be reloaded to the velocities they are built for, i.e. ~ 2,000 fps. Reloder 7, XMP 5744, IMR or H 4198, or even IMR 3031 are all suitable powders.
 
J

Jeff H

NW Ohio
I'm not saying the 7.62x39 is the equal of the 30/30 and do not believe such to be so, but...

For the application at hand, it could be nearly enough be so with 150 grain bullets in a bolt-action.

Now, I recently SOLD the most marvelous little bolt-action, so-chambered, and I'm certain a fella could load it to be very effective with 150s for the type of shooting mentioned in the OP.

Mine was a CZ 527, but there are some out there in the Zastava M85 (aka "Mini-Mauser"), sold under various other names, even by Remington for a short time. Ruger chambered the M77 for some as well, but not many. All three use BOX magazines, so even pointy bullets are OK. Not that I believe that makes much real-life difference for the ballistics the case is capable of, but it widens the selection of bullets a LOT.
 
R

Rushcreek

Well-Known Member
Our deer are seldom much over 200 lbs on the hoof, but living in our heat makes them tough…..
I would not use a Barnes bullet on deer unless the law required it. Plain old jacketed bullets work just fine.
The Nosler Ballistic Tip is a popular bullet down here because it’s fragile enough to expand quickly before it blows on through. I know hunters that bad mouth the .243 100 gr; I’ve only used 80 gr sp for the three DRT deer kills I’ve made with the .243 Win.
Even with my 30-30 bolt action, the proven 150 and 170 gr CoreLokt, Silver tips, Power Points, etc.
continue to work- but I used a 150 gr pointed CorLokt reload for my first deer last season. A couple years back I used 125 gr NBT.
Placement is first; bullet performance is second.
I’ve killed many deer with 55 gr. Bullets from a .223 and 22-250 and one with a 270 gr 9.3 bullet- and lots more with cartridges in between. No difference in the quickness of death in those instances.
Deer that are shot through the heart often travel a ways- no matter what normal cartridge was used.
Long ago Hornady ran an ad featuring a hunter/reloader telling of his success using bullets meant for the 30-30 in his 30-06 at full speed.
 
fiver

fiver

Well-Known Member
just shoot 30-30 bullets at 30-30 speeds in your 308.
or run a 200gr. speer in your X57 on top of Unique at about 2-K or so.
 
M

Monochrome

Active Member
Jeff H said:
Any reason it HAS to be a bolt-action?

30/30 ballistics can be exploited quite well with a lever-action, but there are so many inexpensive bolt-actions

The Savage 340 or Remington 788 both have great reputations, but are getting hard to find. One of the new, cheap, plastic-stocked CNC wonders chambered in 308 and loaded down would be a cheap and easy way there. Same can be said for the '06 or 300 Savage, but 308 brass is so much cheaper and easier to fond these days.

I love the 30/30 and it FITs my chosen main platform - Contender Carbine. If I really wanted a bolt-action, I'd personally look for a case more amenable to the action design and 308 is about as cheap and easy to find as one could hope for these days. Not my favorite cartridge, but I cannot argue that it is a pretty versatile case. Honestly, hanging onto the 30/30 like I do is a bit of an indulgence, not necessarily THE most practical choice, but it fits the Contender, which I chose for several reasons, not just the 30/30.
Click to expand...
Bolt action because 1 i really like bolt action rifles, and because of a physical issue a lever action is not exactly a good choice for me. The break opens just dont excite me.

I have been, was working on, reduced power loads using the 150 grain interlock SP. Its been a back burner project for me unfortunately. The use of 30-30 bullets was already perplexing me but I couldnt get proper data on them from manufacturers concerning minimum or maximum impact velocity.

I have read various spots about a nosler bullet that can expand at velocities down to 1300 fps. THAT would be an ideal bullet as 99% of my hunting is done within 40-60 yards.
 
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