Deteriorating powder safety

[Chris]

Was recently offered 7 cans of various IMR powders of advanced age. I accepted them. The owner felt that the powders were going bad... but to me they look fine and smell normal, not acrid like really bad stuff.

Pour the powder through a funnel you can see a bit of rusty dust clinging to the sides, pouring the powder makes a small amount of dust. But the stuff smells normal.

Suppose it is safe enough to put in my Dillon and turn into offhand practice rounds using cast? Probably would not store any loaded rounds, just go have some fun.

What is your collective wisdom on this?

 

[Rick]

Rusty dust? I dunno, I made up my mind a few decades ago that I take no powder from anyone that has been opened or is questionable in any way and have turned down powder several times. Maybe I'm over cautious but to me it just ain't worth it.

 

[Brad]

Are the cans rusty? Is the rust from the can or powder?

 

[Josh]

When powder deteriorates I always saw greenish/whiteish powder with a very acrid smell. It may possibly be the cans it was in.

What powder is it? If it is a pistol powder you already have a can of you can load up a reduced load in a rifle cartridge using the known good stuff and the old stuff. If it is quick powder you would only need about 6 grains of it in an 06 size case. Run them over the chronograph and see if the older powder is substantially faster or slower than the control powder.

 

[Chris]

Are the cans rusty? Is the rust from the can or powder?

The dust appears to be from the powder, not the metal can. The powder appears normal in appearance, you can't see the dust until the powder is poured. I poured a cupful through a funnel and there is a trace of red dust stuck to the plastic.

I have previously seen and smelled really spoiled powder that was visibly rusty and had a bad acrid odor. This stuff looks and smells normal except as mentioned above.

The powders are IMR 4198, 4320, etc. All rifle powders. The idea of running a control with a chrono might work.

 

[Josh]

I would say they are just starting to turn but may still be good. You can use IMR 4198 in something like a 223 with a cast bullet or a 30-06 or a 45-70. Just a start charge or a reduced charge with some dacron fluff will net you 25-30 K psi and will show you what if anything the powder is doing different.

 

[Ian]

Fertilizer.

 

[Josh]

One last thought, is the powder magnetic? If so it is the can, I don't believe any modern gunpowder is made from ferrous material.

 

[Chris]

One last thought, is the powder magnetic? If so it is the can, I don't believe any modern gunpowder is made from ferrous material.

Nope, passed a magnet through it and zip. The red dust may be the product of chemical deterioration. I guess the real question is my safety.

Just had a brainstorm... made a cartridge of 4350 and some newspaper thinking maybe it would make a good accelerant for lighting a fire while hunting. I lit it ouside... that's gonna need a little more work for sure.

 

[300BLK]

I had some unopened cans of IMR 4198 that were 15+ years old, and the cans appeared rusty on the inside. The powder smelled like ether, so I transferred the powder into more recent, plastic containers (and relabeled).

 

[Rick]

Fertilizer.

^^^^^^^^^
.

 

[Chris]

I had some unopened cans of IMR 4198 that were 15+ years old, and the cans appeared rusty on the inside. The powder smelled like ether, so I transferred the powder into more recent, plastic containers (and relabeled).

Did that powder perform normally for you? No pressure issues?

 

[Brad]

Yeah, if it is even beginning to deteriorate I would dump it. No way I'm taking a chance with my guns and face.

 

[300BLK]

Did that powder perform normally for you? No pressure issues?

I haven't loaded any of it. I'll have to check the jug and see how it smells and looks.

 

[Ian]

I saved some IMR 4198 from some slightly rusted cans, used some fine mesh to sort out the finings and repackaged. The powder itself was in excellent condition and fires safely but I only use it in mild loads. If the brown stuff isn't rust, DUMP IT. New powder is available and still pretty cheap.

There is a difference between managing risk and rolling the dice.

 

[Pistolero]

If it smells normal, it isn't deteriorated, just can rust. Put in an old powder plastic
bottle, PROPERLY LABELED, and enjoy.

Bill

 

[KHornet]

I believe that there are variables worth noting regarding powder going bad, not the least
how and where the cans were stored. If powder is stored in a cool dry place, and tops are
secured air tight, powder can last a long time. The question then becomes, "what is a long
time?"

About 7-8 years ago, at a Lincoln gun show, I bought 4 cans of old 4831 in the 1 lb.
cans that were yellow and orange cardboard or what looked to be cardboard, with metal top
and bottom with the little top hold about an inch in dia, that you pried off. It was probably
15 years old at that point, but it was 5.00 a can. I shot three of the cans over the last few
years, and still have one can about half full. The can shows no deterioration of powder,
smells good, no rust or dust etc.

I believe that being secured in an air tight container is a key to long term powder storage,
if all other conditions are in place. IF I ever have a can that shows the symptoms listed it
will get flushed or become fertilizer. With everything today coming in plastic, rust is not an
issue, but a change in color and smell would sure
be. Just my opinion.

Paul

 

[smokeywolf]

Only powder I've ever had to use for fertilizer was a can of 4895. Came across the can in one of Dad's sheds, back in about 1991 or '92. Can was OD green and shape-wise, resembled a plain old gallon can like you'd buy turpentine or Coleman fuel in.

Powder had the acrid smell and was full of the rusty reddish brown powder. Dad said he couldn't remember when he got it, but was likely WW II surplus.

 

[Rick]

Paul is right, powder can easily last for decades but completely dependent on how it's been stored. That is why for me I don't accept used powder and most certainly not if it's been opened. A tremendous variety of powders are available, if that weren't the case it may be worth some gamble in taking second hand powder.

 

[Bret4207]

I'm still using powder produced int he late 70's. Stored dry in the original containers. Haven't had a problem yet.