Deteriorating powder safety

[9.3X62AL]

"Mystery powder" scares me spitless. No way on earth I would ever "roll the bones" on such fuels. I understand economics pretty well, and rolling the bones on powder is FALSE ECONOMY.

Times like these in which scarcity and/or rising costs of components prompt questionable practices--unwise economizing being chief among them--is how people get hurt in this hobby field. I recall how Peshmerga in Afghanistan used to somehow refill Berdan rifle primers--cut up 35mm negatives into "gunpowder"--grind down rocks into somewhat bullet-like forms--and then use the resulting rounds in whatever Mauser or Enfield rifle they could find to snipe at Russian soldiers with. Once in a while, the rifles blew up--but to the Peshies that was just a cost of doing business. That recollection comes to mind EVERY time I read or hear about questionable reloading practices and the supposed justification for taking such steps.

Short answer--that powder would already be feeding my lawn. Call me a sissy-la-la, but ANY significant flaw to my brass--primers--powder--or bullets is grounds for dismissal. If recyclable, I'll salvage it--if not, it gets discarded in unusable fashion to prevent re-use.

 

[Chris]

Thanks, guys. I value your opinions.

 

[SierraHunter]

I've used powder quite a bit that has started to give off a red dust. Usually just load and shoot anyway. Have never had a problem. If you are planning on dumping it, I'll take it off your hands it's it's enough to make shipping worth it.

 

[Ian]

New powder is barely worth shipping hazmat, much less questionable deteriorated powder. Nobody ever has a problem until they do, then they have a big one.

 

[SierraHunter]

New powder is barely worth shipping hazmat, much less questionable deteriorated powder. Nobody ever has a problem until they do, then they have a big one.

This is true. I've always used it in light cast loads. But then again, I learned from a guy who did a lot of things other people wouldn't go near.

 

[Brad]

People who do lots of things others won't go near are people who most shooters I know won't go near.

Color me cautious

 

[Josh]

People who do lots of things others won't go near are people who most shooters I know won't go near.

Color me cautious

I looked in my kids 300+ Crayola crayon box... not one said cautious... any suggestions?

 

[Rick]

Must be cheap Chinese crayons.

 

[Josh]

IDK, only use I have for crayons is to add a tick of color to my bullet lube!

 

[David Reiss]

I purchased a large lot of 60s & 70s Hodgdon & Hercules (Alliant) powders about two years ago. It came from the retired owner of a long closed gun shop. He had stored the powders in an airconditioned environment since the store closed in the early 70s. All of it was still sealed and the cans look as if they were produced last week. I bought the lot at a really good price since he and I knew I maybe taking a chance, but some of the powders were long out of production. Every can I have opened still smells great and shoots even better. In the 80s I also had the chance to buy a couple dozen kegs of Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot, Blue Dot & 2400 at a wholesale cost. I have kept them stored in the same manner and they have not deteriorated in the old cardboard/fiberboard containers. So I can say, if it smells good, it is good.

 

[KHornet]

You have made some excellent buys David!

 

[Glaciers]

Love this forum.
When I was a teenager in the 60's I used to frequent Stanley's Gun Room in Santa Ana, California. The sold surplus powder from the war (#2 or Korean not sure which) anyway 4831 was sold for 6 bits a pound and put in a paper sack. Well I came across some 1 pound steel unmarked powder cans and bought 30 pounds.
Now I used 4831 at the time for one gun a 338 mag in a Sako Finbear. I'm Still using that powder and it's fine. But I live I Alaska for the last 40 plus years and it's dry in the interior of the state. You have to work at getting steel to rust. So that would put this powder at close to 80 years old.
I believe its how it is stored.
This is my first time posting, not real sure how it all works, but..........

 

[KeithB]

I would probably buy and use old powder if it was unopened and it smelled OK. If it didn't appear to be in perfect condition I would turn it into fertilizer or light it up on the Fourth of July. I would never use any opened powder no matter what age it was - too much chance of somebody mixing two incompatible powders together. Ian's right - "Nobody ever has a problem until they do, then they have a big one."

 

[Rick]

John and Keith are both correct. How it is stored has everything to do with it and I too would not trust someone else to not have mixed powders or that it had been properly stored. If anything doesn't appear "right" about it, color, smell, previously opened etc both the flower garden and the lawn love questionable powder.

Welcome to the forum John.
.

 

[Pistolero]

Actually, John, moisture doesn't hurt powder in the slightest. In fact, storing powder under water is the perfect long
term storage method. It is oxygen which powder reacts with and is basically doing the same reaction that it does in
a hurry when we light it, just in super slow motion. Without any oxygen, minimal reaction. There is another kind of
deterioration, which is if they get in too big a hurry when finishing it and don't do enough rinsing to remove the last
traces of acid from the manufacturing process. They need to rinse, and rinse, and rinse, many, many times and it literally
takes days, at least with the old methods from WW2. The dry conditions will certainly keep the cans in good shape,
which ensures that they remain airtight.

A friend at Hodgdon tells me that powder stored underwater will essentially last forever, although you need to dry it
out well before using, obviously.

Chemical reactions double their reaction rate every 10C, as a general rule of thumb, so keeping your powder in sealed
containers to exclude oxygen, and in cold conditions in Alaska will tremendously slow the chemical reactions while
starving it for oxygen. Cold and sealed in airtight containers is ideal storage conditions.

Bill

 

[Glaciers]

Thanks for the info Bill, interesting stuff.
I have been tempted to buy older powder at shows but did not for 2 reasons. First, the points Keith makes about the unknown, and second, I don't think I really need more powder. Although I am working on the retirement thing and hope to improve on the amount of time spent shooting and loading, I try to fight the hoarding desire. Going to break in my new 95 yard range. After breakup of course.

 

[Cliff]

This was a couple of years ago. Powder gone bad. Very obnoxious smell. Powder was a few years old, but not really sure how old.

 

[RBHarter]

I've seen some auto ignite .
16" pre war charges ....... Probably about 98' .

 

[Pistolero]

Wow, deteriorating that quickly? VV powders haven't been brought into this country
for longer than maybe 15 years. I have LOTS of powder twice that old.

Seems to not speak well for their processes.

Bill

 

[fiver]

wow that looks like a vapor just emanating from the jug.
and at the price for VV I'd be bent.