Extruded Powder Prices

[TXTad]

...
My end goal is to find ball/spherical fuels for j-word full-tilt loadings in 243 and 6.5 x 55 that provide the ballistic and accuracy performance of IMR/H 4350 and 4831, which are both a PITA to run through my powder measures. WW-780/785 might have been an answer, but both are out of print and never have been easy to find.

WC-860 is close in the 6.5 x 55; a full case of that fuel (55.0 grains) gives 2450 FPS to 140 grain j-words and stellar accuracy. This is 1896-level ballistics, and is certainly a capable load. In contrast, 45.5 grains of IMR-4831 gives 2700 FPS to Nosler Partitions, Hornady Interlocks, and Sierra Game Kings of 140 grains; all shoot under 1" at 100 yards in my Ruger 77.
...

I never got around to trying 4831 for my Swedes. I bought a lot (as in..a LOT) of slow WC852 and found some loads that I think approximate the original ballistics, though I never got around to chronographing them before life moved on to other things for a while. That time is starting to come back, so I should eventually find out just how good these loads are. Since I was just plinking soda cans at 100 yards, I was content to use a Remington bullet with dual cannelures crimped in the rear-most one. I bought a large lot of those as well.

In short, I want a ball-powder equivalent to IMR-4831; I'm not sure that it exists, or ever did. I know that all of this red-coated bullet bit is off-topic, but there are some right knowledgeable folks here, and I don't know where else to look--so I ask for a bit of indulgence here.

I think some of the best conversations often wind up on and off topic...

 

[fiver]

i forgot about that sta-ball stuff.
there's a couple of them out there to look at now.

 

[Elpatoloco]

Sounds like you need to look at Winchester StaBALL 6.5 powder. It's a ball powder that's right at the H4350 burn speed.

I Really, really like this powder in the 6.5 creed

 

[TXTad]

I had a long conversation earlier this week with a friend who used to own an ammo company and is still plugged into the industry. He was telling me that the Chinese control most of the market for nitrocellulose, and of course they're not exactly our friends right now. Because of this, nitrocellulose is now the single most expensive component when making powder and powders that use more than others are going to cost more. This is not affecting the Europeans anywhere near as much as they are still getting decent prices from the Chinese, so that is why we're seeing Vihtavuori powders relatively more decently priced than usual.

 

[L Ross]

I had a long conversation earlier this week with a friend who used to own an ammo company and is still plugged into the industry. He was telling me that the Chinese control most of the market for nitrocellulose, and of course they're not exactly our friends right now. Because of this, nitrocellulose is now the single most expensive component when making powder and powders that use more than others are going to cost more. This is not affecting the Europeans anywhere near as much as they are still getting decent prices from the Chinese, so that is why we're seeing Vihtavuori powders relatively more decently priced than usual.

Sounds like an opportunity for an American Company to manufacture nitrocellulose.

 

[CWLONGSHOT]

I saw a 4831 SC for 73$ Saturday...

Im gonna pick up a couple
Bottles today. Saturday I realized my local guy had best prices.

CW

 

[fiver]

Sounds like an opportunity for an American Company

there's lot's of 'opportunities' for American companies out there...
it's well,,, we all know why nobody is taking advantage of them.

 

[popper]

One needs to realize that most 'American' companies (and their debt) are owned by wall street. Actual 'retail' ownership is about 10%.

 

[TXTad]

I read an article the other day, that of course I cannot find now, that was talking about the nitrocellulose shortage and all of the consumer products that are affected. There are a few surprising things, including printer ink and fingernail polish. The market is going to continue to grow, so unless there are new suppliers, it's going to be a while before we seen any sort of return to normalcy for powder prices.

Here's a similar article I found: https://www.globenewswire.com/en/ne...m-End-Use-Industries-Report-by-Market-us.html

 

[JonB]

I assume there are equivalent ball forms at those slightly faster (4350/4831) burning rates--I just don't know what they are. Bottom line--scaling every powder charge and trickling them up for the 6.5 x 55 is a labor- and time-intensive PITA.

School me up some--TIA!

In short, I want a ball-powder equivalent to IMR-4831; I'm not sure that it exists, or ever did. I know that all of this red-coated bullet bit is off-topic, but there are some right knowledgeable folks here, and I don't know where else to look--so I ask for a bit of indulgence here.

About a decade ago, when I was shooting 257rob guns with a friend. He put me onto Hodgdon Hybrid 100V. (the hybrid is that it's technology is between stick and ball. They cut the sticks real short, then coat them with deterrents like a ball powder. see youtube video.
.
It's on the burn rate charts between 4350 and 4831. I had been using 4350 with heavy jacketed bullets with good results, but it's a pain to meter. I bought a jug of the Hybrid 100v and it flows in my vintage Herters powder measure like a dream.

 

[Outpost75]

The majority of steroidal powders are of US manufacture with a great deal of commercial product being military surplus and contract over runs.

The extruded powders are almost entirely produced offshore by ADI in Australia, Expro in Canada, Dynamit-Nobel, Vituvouri or Norma in Europe.

Worldwide demand for military powder is the tail which wags the dog.