richhodg66
Well-Known Member
I still want to try that cartridge in a single shot or bolt rifle loaded down as a .25-20, but it's pretty impressive that it almost equals the .250 Savage, very efficient cartridge to say the least.
I was asked to talk about the 25/45.
- Thread starter CWLONGSHOT
- Start date
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
I have shot a couple deer with the 25/35 in a single shot with 117 Hornady RN bullets. Not one impressed me and two required second shots! All was inside 75/80 on calm deer that had no idea I was there. One was perfect broad side. I hit him smack in the spot hi shoulder. NO EXIT and altho he expired It wasnt instantly. The bullet didnt have power to break the spine!!
First deer I took with 25/45 was good doe broadside @ 65/70 yards I purposefully shot behind shoulder center of lungs. She mule kicked and wobbly ran about 25/30 yards before expiring.
First deer I took with 25/45 was good doe broadside @ 65/70 yards I purposefully shot behind shoulder center of lungs. She mule kicked and wobbly ran about 25/30 yards before expiring.
richhodg66
Well-Known Member
Someone, John Wooters, perhaps? Had the idea of necking up the .222 to .257 and called it the .25 Copperhead, decades ago. Obviously, the brass availability alone makes this much better. I have a Savage 340 in .222 that I feel could become one of these real easy, but I like the idea of an MGM Contender barrel better.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Mike replied again today. Saying Both Mossberg & Savage have expressed interest in offering firearms chambered 25/45. He has more things to conquer first but is hoping to move in that direction.
I think in a bolt one could duplicate the 250 Savage 87/3K loading.
I have 300 blk, Grendel & 450 BM in both M$R & Bolt guns & all the Bolts attain greater ballistics with zero pressure signs.
Not that "pushing things" is my intent. But feels better when there are no pressure signs.
CW
I think in a bolt one could duplicate the 250 Savage 87/3K loading.
I have 300 blk, Grendel & 450 BM in both M$R & Bolt guns & all the Bolts attain greater ballistics with zero pressure signs.
Not that "pushing things" is my intent. But feels better when there are no pressure signs.
CW
L Ross
Well-Known Member
Looks like an interesting cartridge and probably useful. I fail to see how it could possibly equal the .250-3000's ability to hit 3,000 fps second with so much smaller case, unless the pressure is much higher in the smaller case.
Missionary
Well-Known Member
Our reason to get the upper was we already shoot the 257 Bob so were halfway with the 25-45.
.223 will never be more than a gopher gun to me.
.223 will never be more than a gopher gun to me.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
100% its pressures! The 250 was low pressure. Remember its age. At the time it was a huge deal to claim such astronomical velocity!
The 25/45 doesn't achieve it in my barrels & I didn't like what it did to brass attempting to reach that! In a bolt gun. It just might!
CW
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I've never shot the .250 in anything other than a Ruger 77 International, and as I mentioned before I run it pretty hot. Right after I bought the little rifle I bought two cases, yes cases of W-W factory 87 grain ammo. The sun had faded all of the red inked graphics on those cases as they sat in a glass counter for years. The proprietor was happy to sell me both cases. Actually, the gun shop where I bought the Ruger was happy to get rid of it. The owner had paid floor inventory tax on it for 3 years already. I pointed that out during negotiations. He sold it to me at his cost. He told me if the little rifle had been a .243 it would have sold shortly after it hit the rack. He asked me if I'd ever heard of a .250-3000 and reminded me that since I was a hand loader I could make ammo for it.
I never shot any game with factory ammo in it, and all of that W-W ammo has been shot up and the casings carefully put back in their boxes. The factory ammo clocked 2,800 fps over my chronograph. I probably never needed anything else. But the bullets in the factory stuff looked short, the bullets were crimped, and Francis Sell said the 100 grain bullet was what Charles Newton had designed the .250 for. Oh I was younger and much less experienced back then, about 1980. I shot Wyoming antelope, (4), with 87 grain Hornady's, Wisconsin white tails with the 117 round nose, and my wife used the 117's most of the time but did use one 100 grain NBT.
My career with rifles and big game, (deer), had been stifled until around that time because where I hunted we had to use shotguns with slugs. After I was exposed to hunting deer with rifles in an area that allowed them, I wanted one, then several, in the worst way. Eventually our State saw the light, (powered by a fear of CWD), and opened the entire State to rifle use. Of course the doom and gloom, and predictions of piles of dead people, cowering in their rural homes, killed by stray rifle bullets flung carelessly at deer never materialized, and the antis went off to fight dove hunting.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Thats a awesome rifle!! I only ever owned one 250 and it was a custom arisaka 6.5 re barreled and stocked. Actually a pretty and good shooting light rifle. It shot well but wouldnt advise even most manuals data. Arasaka 7.7 can be pretty strong but not sure of the smaller 6.5. Anyhow, I always watched for a 250 or 257 International for my wife as we both loved the looks and handling since shooting a friends 7x57. But its recoil was a bit much for her.
Many manuals offer loads more in line pressure wise to modern rifles. Unlike the 257 where its listed as +P. I have read many times that factory 87 ran shy of 2900 in most rifles. (Probably 20-22" bbls)
Here is some crono numbers I shot in the 25/45.
Handload 110 FTX
Hand load 117 RN
110 FTX target aa2200 powder testing.
Factory 70g ammo
This is a Benchmark hand load data with a 90g SGK.
Many manuals offer loads more in line pressure wise to modern rifles. Unlike the 257 where its listed as +P. I have read many times that factory 87 ran shy of 2900 in most rifles. (Probably 20-22" bbls)
Here is some crono numbers I shot in the 25/45.
Handload 110 FTX
Hand load 117 RN
110 FTX target aa2200 powder testing.
Factory 70g ammo
This is a Benchmark hand load data with a 90g SGK.
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L Ross
Well-Known Member
Back when I was invited to hunt with some guys over by Amherst Junction, a retired game warden had a Remington 722 in .257 Roberts and on one particular day his son was hunting with it. The warden was using a Sako .222 that he had used for a culling assignment. Might have worked well for that, at night, with a light, but for catch as catch can deer hunting I saw him hit two different deer in two days and other hunters ended killing both of the wounded deer with no blood trail to work with.
Anyway, he hit a deer with the .222 and it headed out to a potato field, wide open 80 acres, and an elevated box blind was positioned on one edge. The warden got on the walkie talkie and announced he'd hit a doe and trail it toward the potato field. The doe went running across the harvested potato field, not running flat out. I could see it was sickly from my vantage point and I waited for it to come to me. I was packing a 8x57 that had been semi sporterized with a Lyman 48 receiver sight and W-W 170 grain factory ammo. As I watched the doe sort. of stumble running across the field, I first saw the puff, then heard the report of a rifle coming from the elevated blind. There was a mild audible impact and the doe stumbled then collapsed. I was dumb struck, the doe was a good 300 yards from that blind. The warden's son had he .257 R and was shooting W-W 117 grain round nose ammo with a 4X steel tube Weaver.
Later around the Supper table during the re-telling the son said he would not have attempted such a shot at an unwounded deer, but since he had nothing to lose he swung past the deer and about 1/2 a deer high and pulled the trigger. One shot and down she came.
A few years later my brother got a .257 Roberts in a tang safety Model 77 Ruger and we chronographed the 117 W-W round nose non Plus P ammo and it clocked right at 2,450 fps from a 22" barrel. I believe the W-W 117 grain round nose is softer than the Hornady, had more exposed lead, and was scalloped.
I run my Hornady 117 gr. RN at about 2,650 out of an 18" barrel and alway get complete penetration with an okay sized exit wound. Killed my biggest whitetail buck ever at 135 paces. Again a deer that was leaving a blood trail from a bad abdominal tear inflicted by an unknown hunter who later showed up following that blood trail. I came across this big deer track with a drop of blood about every 10 feet and no human prints. I crested a rise over looking a clear cut and there he was, humping along and just before he made it into the evergreens I managed to hit him right through the top of the heart. When he didn't come out of the spruces I went down there and found him about 10 paces from where I had hit him. As I was field dressing the buck two adults and two kids showed up on the blood trail maybe 20 minutes later. The other hunters looked at the wound and told me that the buck was mine, and they were glad I dropped it before it crossed a road into a huge swamp. In turn I did not feel I had truly earned the buck on my own so I gave it to them. One of the boys had also shot at the big buck with a .30-30 Savage Model 340 and we looked and looked and finally discovered a hole low on the right ham about 3/4" in from the front. The poor kid looked like he was gonna cry, until I told them they had drawn first blood and they could have the buck.
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Awesome story!! I have read of arguments over such situations.
I had a buck shot as I looked at him once... I was suprised as I had been there for hours & saw no one. It was a excellent vantage point seeing a long way in all directions.
Turns out the deer was shot day before and this guy was tracking it. Its would while bleeding was not likely fatal on its own. I watched him walk up on deer. He spied me & made a bee line to me. He was quite lost, no rope and no knife. Somehow he tore his pac & lost most of contense. Compass knife water etc.
I lent him my knife and gave him 1/2 my drag cord. I directed him to closest main road. Off he went.
CW
I had a buck shot as I looked at him once... I was suprised as I had been there for hours & saw no one. It was a excellent vantage point seeing a long way in all directions.
Turns out the deer was shot day before and this guy was tracking it. Its would while bleeding was not likely fatal on its own. I watched him walk up on deer. He spied me & made a bee line to me. He was quite lost, no rope and no knife. Somehow he tore his pac & lost most of contense. Compass knife water etc.
I lent him my knife and gave him 1/2 my drag cord. I directed him to closest main road. Off he went.
CW
CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Bringing back a older thread.
I have been paying much attention ta this one.
Its been a real enjoyable rifle. I have probably 5-7 Videos in changes made. Here is latest new scope. Now costly bought direct from factory on special deal 99$. Makes me want ta see the Gen 3 changes. They are said ta be dramatic. All brass internals and locking turrets and better glass and reticle. But this as long as it holds zero will do what I need here.
I have been paying much attention ta this one.
Its been a real enjoyable rifle. I have probably 5-7 Videos in changes made. Here is latest new scope. Now costly bought direct from factory on special deal 99$. Makes me want ta see the Gen 3 changes. They are said ta be dramatic. All brass internals and locking turrets and better glass and reticle. But this as long as it holds zero will do what I need here.
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CWLONGSHOT
Well-Known Member
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
Excuse my ignorance.
For some reason when I think of 25 caliber my mind just goes to the 80's.
To the Raven pistol I had in the 80's.
I have to keep reminding myself rifle.
Bigger then the .243 I once had. But not as big as the 7 mm Mauser.
Just can't get My mind wrapped around 6mm. I know it has to be pretty effective because .243 is effective. Guess I need to get my hands on one.
Look and sounds like it just may be the perfect bolt gun for the Ohio WVA PA trip state area.
For some reason when I think of 25 caliber my mind just goes to the 80's.
To the Raven pistol I had in the 80's.
I have to keep reminding myself rifle.
Bigger then the .243 I once had. But not as big as the 7 mm Mauser.
Just can't get My mind wrapped around 6mm. I know it has to be pretty effective because .243 is effective. Guess I need to get my hands on one.
Look and sounds like it just may be the perfect bolt gun for the Ohio WVA PA trip state area.