Lesson learned

[Brad]

Went to the range today to see how a slightly smaller bullet would do in my 1911. Took 100 rounds, if it doesn't lead after 100 rounds it isn't going to.
Shot 5, changed mags and click. Recycled hammer, click. Dropped magazine, ejected round. No dent from firing pin. Oh crap.
Came home expecting to find a busted firing pin. Nope, pin is fine. Looks good on both ends.
Changed firing pin springs and recoil spring, it was time.
Got to looking at things and low and behold, it was the over sized firing pin stop causing issues. It was tall enough to hit the bottom of the rear sight. Wait, this started after I cranked the rear sight down at the range. Hmmmm, seems the rear sight pushed the stop down enough to create an interference issue with the firing pin. Pin never rebounded enough to be struck by the hammer. Old and weak firing pin spring didn't help any.

Stripped the slide completed, cleaned it all well, and shortened the top of the firing pin stop. All seems fine now.

Odd that this took so long to become an issue. I replaced the firing pin stops years ago, at least a few thousand rounds ago.

What the hell, decided to strip the slide on the CZ 75 too. Gonna get dirty cleaning one, might as well clean two.

 

[Ian]

Gotta love a series 80, the great solution looking for a problem that never existed.

 

[Brad]

Yep, series 80.

 

[smokeywolf]

Is there any other reason for going with the over sized FP stop than stiffening up the extractor or if one with a minimal radius on the bottom edge, reduction of perceived recoil?

 

[Ian]

That reminds me, one of mine is still running on the original FP spring, probably have at least 4K rounds through it and have replaced the recoil spring and hammer springs at least twice already. Mebbe I ought to fix that.

 

[Brad]

I wanted the minimal radius on the bottom edge. Made a big change in how the cases eject.
Now that I replaced the spring I wonder how ejection will be? Hope it doesn't throw cases as far.

 

[Brad]

That reminds me, one of mine is still running on the original FP spring, probably have at least 4K rounds through it and have replaced the recoil spring and hammer springs at least twice already. Mebbe I ought to fix that.

Just changed recoil and FP spring. Must have better than 5 K rounds thru it.
Hammer spring is something I should look at.

 

[smokeywolf]

Although I'm fairly familiar with the relationship the parts have with one another, because I've never had to tune or tweak my 1911, I'm not understanding why the relationship of bottom of FP stop to hammer would make a difference in extraction.
I know the right edge of the FP stop interacts with, prevents rotation of extractor, but I'd like to understand why bottom of FP stop to hammer changed extraction characteristics.

 

[Brad]

I took the square edge and barely broke it with a stone. The FP stop that came with the gun had a huge radius.
Guess which one requires more effort to cock the hammer? That ties up slide energy on recoil which in turn changes ejection energy and the "felt" recoil.

From what I hear this is the way the original guns were made. The army changed the design at some point to make racking the slide with hammer down easier or some such thing.

 

[smokeywolf]

From what I hear this is the way the original guns were made. The army changed the design at some point to make racking the slide with hammer down easier or some such thing.

Got it! Slightly retarded rearward movement of slide alters ejected brass' angle, velocity, distance.

As I understand it, mounted troops in WW I carried the 1911 in condition 3 and complained of the force needed to rack the slide while holding reins, paying attention to the path ahead of their mount and conditions and activities around them.

 

[Brad]

Ask Rick, he was there!

I never thought the small radius FP stop would make a difference but it sure did. I made the change on a whim and never regretted it.

 

[smokeywolf]

Yeah, Rick was my Captain.

 

[Pistolero]

Yes, small radius was in the original Browning design. Army changed it to make racking the slide
easier without cocking the hammer first. The great majority of guns run just fine with the large
radius, a tribute to how much "screwing with" the JB design will absorb.

When I changed the one that I changed (Ltwt Commander, carry gun with a slight
tendency for odd ejection pattern, and an odd hitch in the recoil "feel") I had to make my own. Used
416 SS, very hard stuff, and fitted it very tightly. Most folks would never feel the 'hitch' but I have fired
around 300K rounds through 1911s, maybe even more, and the normal feel is
just somewhere laid down in permanent memory.

Be sure yours is tight on the extractor. Extractor clocking on the Series 80s is super critical.
Early Ser80 guns with normal FPstop slop had occasional unclearable stoppages when the tiny
ledge on the extractor that retains the FP lock plunger would partially release the plunger,
locking it in the down position, extending from the bottom of the slide enough to hit the
rear of the frame. Game over, reset requires disassembling FP stop and resetting plunger
and extractor. Fix was selectively fitted FP stops, now series 80 FP stops are numbered for dimension,
and selectively fitted to keep it very tight on the extractor.

As to 5K on springs........I change mine every 10 or 20K, if I think of it. Springs are way, way
overrated in the 1911. Make very little difference unless the gun is messed up and too tight, needing
excessive forces to close. Using too strong a spring just batters the gun on closing and
doesn't really "prevent battering", which is the usual claim. Guns will run fine most of
the time with 12 lb spring, 16 lb is stock, way too many owners add 18 and 20 lb springs, just
beating the gun - hammering the barrel link and making it hard to rack the slide.

Try shooting the gun without a recoil spring. Won't close, but shoots and ejects fine, it really
doesn't hurt anything. Spring is just to close the gun, has pretty much zero to do with
opening time and such - that is primarily inertia controlled, although the hammer cocking
force can be increased with the small radius to influence the unlocking a bit.

What magazines do you use? Original tapered lips, hybrids or early release? Again,
many/most guns will put up with these new mag lip designs, but the tapered lips are
best for ball and ball-similar HPs as many are today. Ultra short SWCs will actually
benefit from the early release designs, but these have become essentially the standard
and make the gun a push feed rather than controlled round feed - hard on extractors,
and I think a bit more prone to jamming.

So much knowledge of the original designs is being lost as old timers bite the dust.

 

[Brad]

My magazine of choice is Checkmate hybrid feed lip. They feed anything I shoot very well.
The gun is very reliable. It feeds well, ejects everything, and is just overall reliable. I like that a bunch.
My FP stop seems snug enough on the extractor to keep it behaving well. It doesn't jam so all must be working as designed.

I use stock 16 # springs, no need to change.

 

[Pistolero]

Good, sounds like you are going down the right path on this. I think the hybrid is probably a good all around
compromise. Some short HPs will not feed with the original tapered lips, along with the very short SWCs like the
H&G 130 - in some guns. Some will digest them all. I think the hybrids are a bit more reliable than the pure
parallel lips early-release designs, although modern CNC manufacturing consistency and well throated (rear
of barrel, not front of chamber) barrels which have been normal production practice for a couple of decades
mean that the vagarities of feeding seen with the milsurp Colts is fading into the mists of time. A good thing.

As long as your FP stop is tight, the FP lock plunger will stay in place and the Series 80 stuff works as
intended with relatively little impact on the trigger pull or reliability.

And staying with the 16 lb springs is a good choice, too.

It is still mind boggling to know that over 100 years on, there are something like 20-25 different companies
still making the 1911 design, and it still sells well. Who made yours?

Bill

 

[Brad]

Mine is a Colt gold cup. Got it 6 or so years ago.

 

[Rick]

Mine is a Springfield Armory Factory Comp, shoot it very little with my hatred of chasing brass. Makes a great night stand gun and if I shoot it all the brass is safe in the house.

 

[Pistolero]

New 6 years ago, or used? Is the rear sight the old Elliason or the new Bowmar copy? The
real Bowmars were pretty bullet proof, the Elliasons (as on my Gold Cups) were OK, but would
sometimes fail the mounting pin and many broke at the 50-70,000 round area where the rear
sight leaf actually joins the mechanism. No info on how close the Bowmar-looking sights that they
are currently using on the Gold Cups come from or how they stand up compared to the originals.

I saw a Bowmar-looking sight on a Kimber actually break off the rear leaf
a few years back, something that the real Bowmar sights just never, ever did.

Glad to hear both are working well, given the huge numbers of different makers and wide
range of parts suppliers, the general reliability of the design is a bit of a minor miracle.

Just think about it - how many other designs were made by more than one manufacturer?
Lugers come to mind, but not much else. Well, for rifles -- there is the AR which has about
1,000 different makers, it would seem.

Bill

 

[Brad]

Mine was brand spanking new when I bought it. Sight looks like a Bomar copy.
Entire gun has been pretty trouble free ever since I figured out what to feed it.

I got lots of advice from 35 Remington over on CB. So far he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

 

[Rick]

The Bo-Mar copy sights that I am aware of are the ISGW (Iron Sight Gun Works) and the Champion sight. Both garbage. The ISGW has a very thin and weak windage screw, takes nothing to bend it and if you do any windage adjustment throws off elevation a lot. The champion uses a cheap elevation screw that has extremely inconsistent elevation clicks. This is the sight that FA was using after Jim Rock of RPM Pistol (Last owner of ISGW) died and they weren't available any more. FA gave me a set of Champion sights at the Shot Show the year they started using them. I put it under a dial indicator and mailed it back to FA.

Was an extremely sad day for the shooting sports when they closed the doors on Bo-Mar and the family (or somebody) didn't keep it going.