Missionary
Well-Known Member
Just do not drop your powder dispenser on cement to many times.
Making black powder at home
- Thread starter Ian
- Start date
BBerguson
Official Pennsyltuckian
I never thought about the grinder and I have one. I might try that tonight, it should be a lot easier to clamp it down and it has a lock on switch too.
JWFilips
Well-Known Member
I will chime in here! I have a few friends that make their own Black Powder I have seen the erratic results! It works but it is not consistat as is commercial grade! This would drive me nutz! I'm use to Clover leafing Flint lock shots at 75 yards! Good ole GOEX!
Elephant Sucked it was too moist and it was weak! European powders are good but not real hot!
Heck I made pounds of black powder when I was 11! Really blew up glass bottles and Folded and bolted tin cans!
I sure would not put that in my Flintlocks.
If you are interested, there is a whole Thread a mile long on making Black Powder "Across the Street"
Elephant Sucked it was too moist and it was weak! European powders are good but not real hot!
Heck I made pounds of black powder when I was 11! Really blew up glass bottles and Folded and bolted tin cans!
I sure would not put that in my Flintlocks.
If you are interested, there is a whole Thread a mile long on making Black Powder "Across the Street"
L Ross
Well-Known Member
I doubt if there is enough heat there.
Ian
Notorious member
Making GOOD black powder at home is not complicated or difficult, it's only a matter of refining one's own process, which I'm attempting to do here.
The necessary things are high-quality ingredients, fine grinding of ingredients, good corning, and good grading. Polishing and graphiting are optional and probably the easiest processes to do.
Challenge number one is making a meal ground finely enough. Toy rock tumblers just aren't up to the task realistically. Each person has to figure out how much money they're going to spend to do it right. I already have an excellent tumbler and figured out how to make cheap, very effective, non-sparking, non-wearing, non-contaminating media by filling .45 ACP cases with lead. I discovered cylinders mill a lot better than spheres. Challenge met.
Challenge number two is corning well enough. Goex uses 3500 PSI. I figured out to use water, use only enough water to settle the dust in the cup and get only a drop or less squeezing out of the pucking die, was able to make my own pucking die, and already had a heavy shop press in the corner over there. It makes great pucks. Challenge met.
Challenge number three is breaking up the pucks, grinding, and grading the results accurately and thoroughly, which means running the powder through the screens several times at the appropriate mesh size for the sporting powder grade required. 3F sporting powder is 97% goes through a 20 mesh and no more than 12% goes through a 50 mesh. Got me a set of grading screens and smash the pucks in a plastic coffee can with a chunk of wooden closet rod, grade before I crush too much to reduce loss to dust, run the rest through a coffee mill until it all goes through the 20 mesh, collect and re-puck the dust (doing this damp enables immediate re-pucking and re-crushing). I need to refine the crushing and grinding process a bit but essentially for small batches of 1/3 pound or so I have that one whipped.
Miscellaneous challenges include making HIGH QUALITY charcoal and getting durable kernels in the end. Charcoal wood types are well established, pick one near the top of the list and find some. I'm using Red Alder but have seasoned grapevine, willow, and tree of heaven at my disposal and cottonwood wouldn't be tough to get. Blender makes airfloat in two minutes. The only thing left to experiment with is the temperature of the retort to limit how much creosote and aromatic compounds are cooked out....this relates to power and how clean the powder burns and probably also how well it corns/grain durability. Simple experiments will reveal what works best. This is the track I'm on right now to solve since I already have made durable grains with rice starch and have several different charcoals made up with varying levels of remaining creosote to try out.
The proportions of ingredients are well established though some people add a little more sulfur to lower the ignition point if they think they need to. Other slight tweaks to percentages are used but basically it doesn't make much difference.
So that's it. Work out those details and tweak the process a little here or there to get consistency, fouling, power, density, and durability sorted to one's needs and just keep producing it in small batches. Not alchemy, not wizardy, just basic science which mostly involves getting together the stuff to do the processes effectively at OUR houses since none of us are licensed to make hundreds of pounds at a time using jet mills and multi-ton rollers, nor would want to be. Corned pucks can be stored and ground/screened just prior to use if one wants to make a few pounds up in advance using whatever small-batch methods they've worked out for themselves and store it for a long time.
The necessary things are high-quality ingredients, fine grinding of ingredients, good corning, and good grading. Polishing and graphiting are optional and probably the easiest processes to do.
Challenge number one is making a meal ground finely enough. Toy rock tumblers just aren't up to the task realistically. Each person has to figure out how much money they're going to spend to do it right. I already have an excellent tumbler and figured out how to make cheap, very effective, non-sparking, non-wearing, non-contaminating media by filling .45 ACP cases with lead. I discovered cylinders mill a lot better than spheres. Challenge met.
Challenge number two is corning well enough. Goex uses 3500 PSI. I figured out to use water, use only enough water to settle the dust in the cup and get only a drop or less squeezing out of the pucking die, was able to make my own pucking die, and already had a heavy shop press in the corner over there. It makes great pucks. Challenge met.
Challenge number three is breaking up the pucks, grinding, and grading the results accurately and thoroughly, which means running the powder through the screens several times at the appropriate mesh size for the sporting powder grade required. 3F sporting powder is 97% goes through a 20 mesh and no more than 12% goes through a 50 mesh. Got me a set of grading screens and smash the pucks in a plastic coffee can with a chunk of wooden closet rod, grade before I crush too much to reduce loss to dust, run the rest through a coffee mill until it all goes through the 20 mesh, collect and re-puck the dust (doing this damp enables immediate re-pucking and re-crushing). I need to refine the crushing and grinding process a bit but essentially for small batches of 1/3 pound or so I have that one whipped.
Miscellaneous challenges include making HIGH QUALITY charcoal and getting durable kernels in the end. Charcoal wood types are well established, pick one near the top of the list and find some. I'm using Red Alder but have seasoned grapevine, willow, and tree of heaven at my disposal and cottonwood wouldn't be tough to get. Blender makes airfloat in two minutes. The only thing left to experiment with is the temperature of the retort to limit how much creosote and aromatic compounds are cooked out....this relates to power and how clean the powder burns and probably also how well it corns/grain durability. Simple experiments will reveal what works best. This is the track I'm on right now to solve since I already have made durable grains with rice starch and have several different charcoals made up with varying levels of remaining creosote to try out.
The proportions of ingredients are well established though some people add a little more sulfur to lower the ignition point if they think they need to. Other slight tweaks to percentages are used but basically it doesn't make much difference.
So that's it. Work out those details and tweak the process a little here or there to get consistency, fouling, power, density, and durability sorted to one's needs and just keep producing it in small batches. Not alchemy, not wizardy, just basic science which mostly involves getting together the stuff to do the processes effectively at OUR houses since none of us are licensed to make hundreds of pounds at a time using jet mills and multi-ton rollers, nor would want to be. Corned pucks can be stored and ground/screened just prior to use if one wants to make a few pounds up in advance using whatever small-batch methods they've worked out for themselves and store it for a long time.
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RicinYakima
High Steppes of Eastern Washington
I could get enough heat from a Claymore clacker to make a black powder primer go off. However, you would have to have the powder between the electrodes, I would think.
fiver
Well-Known Member
i'm thinking about that Rice starch thing.
there are other types that will act differently, like hold on to a little more water which should help with the hardness your getting.
corn, tater, etc.
anyway, i'm thinking you might try to figure out how to hold about 2-3% water in the mix to avoid the hardness your seeing.
there are other types that will act differently, like hold on to a little more water which should help with the hardness your getting.
corn, tater, etc.
anyway, i'm thinking you might try to figure out how to hold about 2-3% water in the mix to avoid the hardness your seeing.
Josh
Well-Known Member
When it comes to charcoal, would woods with higher BTU content make a more robust or vigorous burn rate? If so, you should look for some locust to try, and if you can find it, Osage Orange. Osage has the #1 highest BTU output per cord in the USA, I'd try and source some of that even if it's just enough to compare to your home brew to commercial.
Bret4207
At the casting bench in the sky. RIP Bret.
I've got 2 HF 4.5" grinders that have hundreds of hours on them. Can't bad mouth them.
Todd M
Craftsman of metals...always learning.
That’s great, glad they work for you.
Mitty38
Well-Known Member
I had thought about making it before, but Since I do not own my own land now, or at least lease a piece of land I can shoot on. I can not do it legally.
Ye you can make it, and store up to 50 lbs of it for private, non business use, at a time.If kept on your own property. Put in a proper storage locker.
But it is Illegal to transport home made black powder (or any home made explosive), without a manufacturing stamp. And I live on leased land next to a park.
So I could never take it anywhere to shoot it.
Course probably best I stay away from mfg stuff that goes bang . That and sharp objects.
Of course I could take the ingredients to the club. Make what I would shoot for the day there and shoot it there. That would work like the tannerite thing. You can have the ingredients, transport them. Mix on the spot and then explode. But mix somewhere else and transport.. Felony.
Ye you can make it, and store up to 50 lbs of it for private, non business use, at a time.If kept on your own property. Put in a proper storage locker.
But it is Illegal to transport home made black powder (or any home made explosive), without a manufacturing stamp. And I live on leased land next to a park.
So I could never take it anywhere to shoot it.
Course probably best I stay away from mfg stuff that goes bang . That and sharp objects.
Of course I could take the ingredients to the club. Make what I would shoot for the day there and shoot it there. That would work like the tannerite thing. You can have the ingredients, transport them. Mix on the spot and then explode. But mix somewhere else and transport.. Felony.
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Ian
Notorious member
I ran some tests with my corned, rice starched, 3F (20-50 mesh) versus Goex 3Fg today in the .47-caliber flinter.
My powder, 10 shots without cleaning, hippie lube (almond beeswax garage sale find), 1351 fps, SD 25. .
Cleaned with Hoppe's 9+, couple wet patches, damp patch, dry patch. Not too bad, black crud but no big flakes of crap and no bad ring at the front of the powder charge.
Goex, four shots without cleaning, same hippie lube, 1621 fps, SD 12.
I quit at four because I was going to have to clean it. Using 2F Goex I could shoot almost 20 without cleaning using the same lube, but it was very dry and windy today too so that might be why it was so bad. Also, 2F only gives 1337 fps from Goex and shoots a lot softer than 3F. Got big, black flakes out of it and the pan was gloriously encrusted with oily black residue and lots of white soot on the flint, cock, and barrel around the flash hole. My powder just leaves a little soot.
So my stuff is pretty clean, not Swiss clean but way better than Goex. My stuff is lighter and almost 200 fps slower at the same volume and grade. Goex is dead nuts consistent and as always except for three flashes in the pan on four shots whereas I didn't have a single misfire with my stuff (EVERYTHING primed with Goex 4Fg today, interesting the pan powder wasn't what makes the crusty, oily mess, only the Goex main charge).
Overall I'm pretty happy even though I haven't tested the most important thing.....ACCURACY! It was blowing a gale from 2 O'clock and I wasn't interested in much more shooting today, plus couldn't really test accuracy while chronographing with the magnetospeed strap around the front sight.
My powder, 10 shots without cleaning, hippie lube (almond beeswax garage sale find), 1351 fps, SD 25. .
Cleaned with Hoppe's 9+, couple wet patches, damp patch, dry patch. Not too bad, black crud but no big flakes of crap and no bad ring at the front of the powder charge.
Goex, four shots without cleaning, same hippie lube, 1621 fps, SD 12.
I quit at four because I was going to have to clean it. Using 2F Goex I could shoot almost 20 without cleaning using the same lube, but it was very dry and windy today too so that might be why it was so bad. Also, 2F only gives 1337 fps from Goex and shoots a lot softer than 3F. Got big, black flakes out of it and the pan was gloriously encrusted with oily black residue and lots of white soot on the flint, cock, and barrel around the flash hole. My powder just leaves a little soot.
So my stuff is pretty clean, not Swiss clean but way better than Goex. My stuff is lighter and almost 200 fps slower at the same volume and grade. Goex is dead nuts consistent and as always except for three flashes in the pan on four shots whereas I didn't have a single misfire with my stuff (EVERYTHING primed with Goex 4Fg today, interesting the pan powder wasn't what makes the crusty, oily mess, only the Goex main charge).
Overall I'm pretty happy even though I haven't tested the most important thing.....ACCURACY! It was blowing a gale from 2 O'clock and I wasn't interested in much more shooting today, plus couldn't really test accuracy while chronographing with the magnetospeed strap around the front sight.
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Ian
Notorious member
I used it straight for patch lube the other day with my riced powder, never cleaned in 20 some shots. I remember you mentioning that mix on the other thread, I do believe I'll try it. I tried 4:1 Ballistol and water first thing today while I was getting the chronograph tuned in, got three shots off before I had to jackhammer the ball down with a range rod (Goex), spit would work better. First time using Ballistol for anything, maybe it will work on my sidewalls? Wholly unimpressed with the stuff.
Crushing and grinding the pucks fresh off the corning press is the way to go, tried it again tonight and it worked just fantastic, only about 20% dust below 60 mesh this time, re-pucked it and reground it, had about a tablespoon out of 3000 grains go back in the corning can for next batch. Also tried an aluminum meat grinder tonight, old one we had from way back. With the smallest hole plate installed it made short work of the chunks and not too much dust or larger grains, very impressed. That saves me fifty bucks on a hand-crank grain mill that looked iffy at best. The small coffee grinder is just too fussy on input size chunks, takes way too long, and makes too much dust.
So keeping everything the same except the grinding process which nets the same end results as before, I'm using 2250 grains of granulated potassium nitrate, 450 grains of "brown" red alder charcoal ground to airfloat in the blender, 330 grains of fine yellow 99.7% sulfur, milling for eight hours to mica-like dust, adding 60 grains of soluble glutenous rice starch and milling for another hour, mixing the flour in a deep cup with a tiny bit of water until it quits making dust (about a capful from a 16 ounce water bottle), pressed into pucks, broken up into chunks, ground up and sifted through 20 and caught in 50 mesh, spread on a cookie sheet to dry.
Next test will be comparing weight/volume of the more heavily cooked charcoal to this stuff, comparing velocities, and comparing fouling characteristics. I also want to start shooting for groups and compare to Goex.
