Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Reference was for the cartridge, not the platform.
Speaking of the platform, the 1911 wouldn't support the whole gamut of aftermarket accessories, if it was so great.
New 9MM
- Thread starter KHornet
- Start date
Reference was for the cartridge, not the platform.
Speaking of the platform, the 1911 wouldn't support the whole gamut of aftermarket accessories, if it was so great.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
They sure are... I would cycle mine every time a new model came out ..about every 6 months....
Ian
Notorious member
Reference was for the cartridge, not the platform.
You don't have to like it, but that line of reasoning makes absolutely no sense to me.
I have a frankenracegun .38 Super and it is ridiculously accurate. I remember a famous comment about that cartridge: If ten gunsmiths were asked to build a 1911 for an accuracy-only competition with a million-dollar prize, ten of them would show up on range day with a .38 Super.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
"And I thought you were a thinker......if it is such a "perfect package", why is everyone always trying to improve on it? Apparently, it's not satisfactory, out of the box."
You mean like the AR15...?
Both the AR and the 1911 are IMO perfect "platforms" ..lending themselves to be customized to do whatever it is you want them to do...not many guns designs are like that...most can be tweaked...but only a few can be so easily customized...
You mean like the AR15...?
Both the AR and the 1911 are IMO perfect "platforms" ..lending themselves to be customized to do whatever it is you want them to do...not many guns designs are like that...most can be tweaked...but only a few can be so easily customized...
Ian
Notorious member
I understood what you meant perfectly, but your reasoning and conclusion do not connect. I guess you never put drag slicks on your musclecar, or added a tachometer, or a Hurst shifter, or replaced the carburetor with a bigger one, or installed a higher lift/duration camshaft, or any other thing to make a perfectly fine stock machine better at a certain task, or at many different tasks because it wasn't "satisfactory out of the box".
The 1911 platform is pure genius for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is the inherent capacity for seemingly endless modification, re-design, customizing, and tuning. It's no accident that it was the platform of choice for numerous shooting competitions, when plenty of other pistols were available. Recently we have Ruger and SIG introducing their versions of the 1911, over 100 years after its invention, and people are buying them. Like I said, nobody is obligated to like the 1911, but to refuse to recognize the greatness of the platform is silly and shows nothing but ignorance of the mechanical masterpiece. BTW, I absolutely detest Glocks, but often recommend them to friends because my personal distaste does not change the fact that they are well-designed, effective, reliable weapons.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
Nope, I'm not a tinkerer. My Chevelle SS is completely stock, except for the stainless steel exhaust system and battery. Because it hasn't been tinkered with and is an original one owner car........it's worth more than any modified one.
I don't buy firearms, cars or anything else, so I throw more money at em.
I don't buy firearms, cars or anything else, so I throw more money at em.
Ian
Notorious member
There are some aspects of John Browning's original designs that manufacturers should leave the hell alone. The firing pin stop is one of those things.
Most 1911s run just fine for generations in bone-stock form, no need for tinkering. That's why the US military issued them as the standard sidearm for 75 years through five major wars.
I've been thinking about 9mm for a long time, but I'm already heavily invested in .45 ACP and with buckets of brass on hand, the cost of reloading is virtually the same. No flies on the 9mm, though, and for recreational shooting they're very nice. With decent, modern SD ammo, they're at least as good as any other common handgun caliber.
Most 1911s run just fine for generations in bone-stock form, no need for tinkering. That's why the US military issued them as the standard sidearm for 75 years through five major wars.
I've been thinking about 9mm for a long time, but I'm already heavily invested in .45 ACP and with buckets of brass on hand, the cost of reloading is virtually the same. No flies on the 9mm, though, and for recreational shooting they're very nice. With decent, modern SD ammo, they're at least as good as any other common handgun caliber.
Winelover
North Central Arkansas
No plans to do so. My 1911 is in 45 ACP, just as Browning intended it.So....... when are you going to replace the CZ with a 9mm 1911?
The CZ also is far more user friendly to people like my wife with a smaller hand.
I don't tend to add lots of aftermarket parts to any guns. I don't like flash, I don't like showy. My lever guns don't need big loop levers. I will modify things to make them shoot better, stuff like cutting cylinder throats or firelapping. I even tend to stay with factory grips on most of them.
quicksylver
Well-Known Member
BTW, I absolutely detest Glocks, but often recommend them to friends because my personal distaste does not change the fact that they are well-designed, effective, reliable weapons.[/QUOTE
Me too..although most of them are not legal in Ma...
I have a full sized 1911 Colt that has two Briley barrels and bushings fitted to it ..one in 9mm one in 38 super...both rounds are great in it ..but I just plain love the 45acp..
BTW one of the best feeding mags I have for the 38 Super is one intended for the 10 MM..
Me too..although most of them are not legal in Ma...
I have a full sized 1911 Colt that has two Briley barrels and bushings fitted to it ..one in 9mm one in 38 super...both rounds are great in it ..but I just plain love the 45acp..
BTW one of the best feeding mags I have for the 38 Super is one intended for the 10 MM..
Pistolero
Well-Known Member
What gun has 21 different manufacturers building cosmetically different versions 100+ years after
it first came out? Only the 1911. IME, many of the problems experienced with the 1911 are
due to latter day changes by lesser minds. The magazines are redesigned, originally primarily
to feed short nosed SWCs. IMO, this is bad for reliability in some guns. They changed the
firing pin stop radius, significantly changing the balance of recoil forces and timing, rather than
the hammer and hammer spring providing a lot of force holding the slide closed for the first
1/8" of the slide travel, it does far less due to the different bottom radius. Other things are
changed, too. IMO, it is amazing that the bastardized versions work as well as they do. The
purer the version, the better they run, IME. Amazingly, most 1911s will run with a wide range of
different design magazines with very different lip and follower designs. Most other guns
have exactly ONE magazine design - the original one made by the original maker.
The ergonomics of the 1911 and extremely good trigger characteristics, plus multiple safeties was never
matched until recently by some of the very latest designs. I can put an absolutely reliable
2 lb trigger pull with near zero takeup and near zero overtravel, and about 0.050" reset on
any good 1911, and it will stay that way for 30-40,000 rounds, safely. I have done it for decades.
IMO, the biggest slam, from a practical standpoint, on the 1911 design is the difficulty of
manufacturing it. It has been really worked out, but the reality is that a more modern
design like the M&P 45ACP S&W is going to be far cheaper to make. Two small subassemblies
inserted into the plastic frame, a few stamped levers and the slide/bbl. That is pretty much the
gun. You can literally buy the entire rear firing subassembly new, retail for $26 !
Not happening with the 1911. Slide and bbl are extremely similar, but the lower frame
and firing parts are far cheaper on more modern plastic guns. Better? Errr. Not in my
opinion. Cheaper? Definitely.
I do carry one every day, though. I have watched literally many millions of rounds sent
downrange by 1911s over the last 35 years. They run. Are other guns good guns? Of
course. But there is enough business still to have 21 companies, including all the major
gun makers building their own version and selling them at a profit, 100+ years later.
Tell me of any other piece of important equipment with more than 1 part which is still
made in quantity and used in quantity 100+ years after first design. The only ones I
can think of are hand tools like saws, axes, hammers and screwdrivers. Nothing with
complex mechanisms - even watches are pretty much gone.
Bill
it first came out? Only the 1911. IME, many of the problems experienced with the 1911 are
due to latter day changes by lesser minds. The magazines are redesigned, originally primarily
to feed short nosed SWCs. IMO, this is bad for reliability in some guns. They changed the
firing pin stop radius, significantly changing the balance of recoil forces and timing, rather than
the hammer and hammer spring providing a lot of force holding the slide closed for the first
1/8" of the slide travel, it does far less due to the different bottom radius. Other things are
changed, too. IMO, it is amazing that the bastardized versions work as well as they do. The
purer the version, the better they run, IME. Amazingly, most 1911s will run with a wide range of
different design magazines with very different lip and follower designs. Most other guns
have exactly ONE magazine design - the original one made by the original maker.
The ergonomics of the 1911 and extremely good trigger characteristics, plus multiple safeties was never
matched until recently by some of the very latest designs. I can put an absolutely reliable
2 lb trigger pull with near zero takeup and near zero overtravel, and about 0.050" reset on
any good 1911, and it will stay that way for 30-40,000 rounds, safely. I have done it for decades.
IMO, the biggest slam, from a practical standpoint, on the 1911 design is the difficulty of
manufacturing it. It has been really worked out, but the reality is that a more modern
design like the M&P 45ACP S&W is going to be far cheaper to make. Two small subassemblies
inserted into the plastic frame, a few stamped levers and the slide/bbl. That is pretty much the
gun. You can literally buy the entire rear firing subassembly new, retail for $26 !
Not happening with the 1911. Slide and bbl are extremely similar, but the lower frame
and firing parts are far cheaper on more modern plastic guns. Better? Errr. Not in my
opinion. Cheaper? Definitely.
I do carry one every day, though. I have watched literally many millions of rounds sent
downrange by 1911s over the last 35 years. They run. Are other guns good guns? Of
course. But there is enough business still to have 21 companies, including all the major
gun makers building their own version and selling them at a profit, 100+ years later.
Tell me of any other piece of important equipment with more than 1 part which is still
made in quantity and used in quantity 100+ years after first design. The only ones I
can think of are hand tools like saws, axes, hammers and screwdrivers. Nothing with
complex mechanisms - even watches are pretty much gone.
Bill
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Despite the glut of 9x19 brass, I don't own one. IF I were to make the purchase, it would be a CZ-75, and most likely the "compact" version. My preference is "cocked and locked" option over the de-cocker.
I've handled and disassembled HPs, but never owned one. There was an article in G&A back in the day, I don't recall who's work it was, but a HP converted to fire a round based upon a shortened .30 Remington case. It was deemed an improvement over the 9x19 and was close to what is now the .40 S&W.
I've owned several 1911s, and put over 50K rounds through one before having the slide tightened and match grade barrel installed. I should have kept that one! My regret was NOT buying a Delta Elite back in the day. 10mm was really stout in its original incarnation (200gr at 1200fps) and hard on pistols. I don't think there any magic in the 45ACP, but it can be very accurate.
For what I do these days, my Officer's ACP .45 and Springfield Armory P9 LS-P (long slide) with 5" Barsto .40 S&W barrel and WCP single action conversion will have to suffice. Otherwise, I'll be carrying a S&W M19, M625, or 5-1/2" Redhawk 44mag.
I've handled and disassembled HPs, but never owned one. There was an article in G&A back in the day, I don't recall who's work it was, but a HP converted to fire a round based upon a shortened .30 Remington case. It was deemed an improvement over the 9x19 and was close to what is now the .40 S&W.
I've owned several 1911s, and put over 50K rounds through one before having the slide tightened and match grade barrel installed. I should have kept that one! My regret was NOT buying a Delta Elite back in the day. 10mm was really stout in its original incarnation (200gr at 1200fps) and hard on pistols. I don't think there any magic in the 45ACP, but it can be very accurate.
For what I do these days, my Officer's ACP .45 and Springfield Armory P9 LS-P (long slide) with 5" Barsto .40 S&W barrel and WCP single action conversion will have to suffice. Otherwise, I'll be carrying a S&W M19, M625, or 5-1/2" Redhawk 44mag.
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